Why not possible to buy the template without Gantry?
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- Yes - I'd like the option
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- 25%
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- No - I need the framework
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- 75%
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- damo
- Elite Rocketeer
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Don't get me wrong, I'm a long time fan, but I don't particularly enjoy having to install another extension just so I get the template.
I like Joomla.
I don't like how I've got to install Gantry to have a template.
I know loads of people are using frameworks these days, but what is wrong with creating a template and offering it as is without the framework? I mean, how many columns and rows can you have and can't you make the module positions collapsible so if you only have two modules in a set position on two show?
Why the Framework and why not just a template without the Framework? - www.c3p0.se - sweden
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- MrT
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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That is where RT started out and we found we were duplicating things and making them very difficult to maintain and change and update. Also, members wanted a common way of getting the functionality required and easy of changing between templates. Having a framework allows us to build a solid engine which is reliable and consistent. This leaves the "template" part as the design itself, letting the engine do all the difficult stuff under the covers.
Having a framework also enables us to add features to the engine without having to update every single template - it's a win-win it makes it easier for for us to provide new features and it's better for members because they can be sure they are getting the latest features in the template they use. Yes, there will always be features that are unique to the template too, but having a framework lets us make enhancements and bug fixes easier than if every template were unique.
So, overall it's better to have a framework than not. Gantry 5 extends this approach too.
Regards, Mark. - Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information.
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- damo
- Elite Rocketeer
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I'm aware how RT started out.
But your explanationation for the most part just makes it easier for RocketTheme - not the users.
Gantry 5 doesn't make it easier.Also, members wanted a common way of getting the functionality required and easy of changing between templates.Did they? I don't remember that. As for changing between templates, that has never been difficult.
And isn't the engine supposed to be Joomla?
Overall, based on your response, I'd say it was better for RocketTheme to have a framework, not the user. - www.c3p0.se - sweden
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- David Goode
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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Hi Damo,
Joomla is the CMS and has its own 'framework' which was designed so that developers could override or use elements that were required for the extension. In RocketTheme's case there was a need for templates to be more flexible because at the time there was a very limited number of options for members. When Gantry was introduced it gave extra resources to members, especially things like assigning a default layout for articles that did not have a menu item.
As a CMS Joomla was not going to add multiple options for templating as this would bloat the code that some people may not even use. So template clubs started to add their own frameworks to make templates more versatile.
As Joomla grew so they changed even more elements in the CMS and so Gantry evolved too. As Mark has already said, this continued to give flexibility and allowed us to address required changes when Joomla updated something. If we had to do that for every template each time Joomla dropped out a new update then we would never get any templates released nor improve on extensions.
Ever since Gantry was introduced there have been more and more template clubs adding their own frameworks for similar reasons. If we can use the framework to speed up development then we can afford to spend time making new improvements for the future. This is how we were able to make time to create Gantry 5 with coding from the ground up. It is the framework that gives the template its power. Imagine trying to set a module position to 29% width in a template with no framework. You would either have to include all of the changes in template admin or tell users how to edit the css. Members would think they were back in the dark ages!
Just look at some of our legacy templates (and please remember that back then we were one of the leading clubs, as we are now), which were considered groundbreaking (no frameworks) but positions were limited due to the way browsers worked, internet speeds, and a whole host of other things. Now we have templates that use frameworks and you can make them suit most tasks.
Gantry 4 had a range of standard positions that were used across all templates, although some had their own distinct variations. This made it very easy for those users who wanted to change their template without rebuilding their site. Frameworks will not go away as more clubs are now using their own. Even one-man bands are using frameworks to sell their own templates via template portals.
You also need to bear in mind that other CMSs like Wordpress have the same issue. The standard WP framework is often replaced by the template framework in order to get flexibility.
Gantry 5 is advancing that further as it allows people to develop a template as they wish and then apply it to either Joomla or Wordpress.
RocketTheme templates without the Gantry framework would be like going to a Rolls Royce dealer and asking for a Rolls Royce Phantom but please take out the engine, air-conditioning, ABS etc. and put in a set of bicycle pedals instead. It may still look a Rolls Royce from outside but it would never perform like one.
Thanks for your feedback. - Last Edit: 9 years 10 months ago by David Goode.
Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information
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- damo
- Elite Rocketeer
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Don't take this the wrong way but I couldn't read all of that ... basically because I sort of know what it's going to say and because the moderators here now seem to be so ... something, I don't know what it is. It's almost as if you're just answering for the sake of answering ...
That this post has also remained at the top after so many hours (nearly 10) after you posting a reply does sort of speak volumes. Back in the day, there was loads of action on this forum and when I look now there are only 27 memebers online.
Bottom line; I just want a template to keep up to date, not another extension that I have to keep up to date also. - www.c3p0.se - sweden
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- David Goode
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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Hi Damo,
No problem. If you don't want to read it I have no issues with that. As for posting for the sake of posting I can assure you that is not my style. I respond to the posts because of two reasons...
First - I can help someone with an issue. That is the majority of the posts I make.
Second - I want to add a reasoned argument to a member's post. These are less frequent but just as important.
The thing with a forum is that almost anyone can do a search and may end up at a post that challenges the way RocketTheme works. It is part of my role to ensure that any such post displays a balanced viewpoint, hopefully without offending the member who posted. You can see from our forums that we are not in the habit of removing posts we may disagree with. We always try to understand the member's needs and if we can't meet them we try to explain why.
It's as simple as that.
Thanks for your feedback.
Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information
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