IMPORTANT: RT Joomla Templates and 3rd Party Extensions
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- Andy Miller
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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- Web Kahuna
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Ok, let me give some history.
Traditionally, we developed a template to work with the core Joomla stuff only. Periodically we would release a template with styling for a specific extension like JomSocial, Virtuemart, K2, etc. Of course there are thousands of extensions out there and for the most part those extensions were only developed and tested for use with the default Milkyway template. Most of these extensions were not written with 'ease of overriding' in mind and often have hardcoded things in them that require their stock layout and design. Also, every time an extension is updated, they often change their output requiring the templates that override that output to be modified in order to support the new modifications. In the past when we tackled these 'larger' extensions we've had to spend a great deal of time testing every aspect of the extensions with the design, in all the styles, and of course in all the browsers like the rest of the template. Mynxx or Affinity for example were huge undertakings, but we radically changed the default designs of these extensions and really made something special and unique.
Now, whenever we released a template, we would get comments like "X extension" is broken in Y template. This is pretty common because the extensions are often poorly coded with inline CSS, tables, and other things that are going to break the layout of anything but Milkyway and maybe other very simple 'white' templates. As completely styling any particular extension is very time consuming, if it's possible at all in a 'style-agnostic' method, we stuck to our guns with this plan on periodically releasing a template with 'supported' styling for specific extensions.
Of course, this meant that every time one of our members wanted to style another extension for their own or their clients sites, they were forced to pretty much start from scratch, adjusting the styling and output to try to match the template they had chosen. This is often way beyond the skill-sets of the average user, even if they are only styling for one color preset.
In an effort to help out our members, we have over the past few months provided what we call 3rd-party compatibility styling of some of the major extensions that people use. Sean even blogged about this process in quite a bit of detail:
www.rockettheme.com/blog/joomla/899-third-party-styling
What this means is that every month we take a great deal of time to go through these major extensions and ensure they don't look 'broken'. This does not necessarily mean they look customized for the theme, or radically different from their default looks. We just try to fix things that are glaringly obviously not compatible. To minimize 'rework' for every extension release, we have a policy that these styling fixes are only CSS based. This means we can't fix everything the way we would ideally like because CSS is often not enough to tackle many of the styling needs of these extensions. Also as we are dealing with so many extensions we just physically don't have the time to give them the level of detailed styling we would of done if we were just styling one of them. Most people are happy with this level of styling as it's often far better than they could achieve on their own. However, some members assume that our 3rd party compatibility styling is in fact 100% custom styling of these extensions. The latter expectation is just not realistic, and we have never intended that impression to be conveyed, hence the blog posts and other forum posts like this where we have endeavored to explain the situation. Frankly this 3rd party styling effort is a HUGE time investment, and has caused our template development times to increase dramatically, even for the 'compatibility' level of styling we are providing.
Understand that we undertook this compatibility styling of 3rd party extensions as a benefit to our members in an attempt to provide more functionality and compatibility. This goes FAR beyond what most other template providers are doing. Another great feature of the RocketTheme Joomla Template Club
Right now we have two options:
1) We continue to offer our compatibility level styling of these extensions. We will have to better educate our members in regards to what this means and what level of styling is being provided by the templates. However, this pretty much rules out the ability to style for any particular extension with a high degree of customization that we have achieved in the past.
2) We drop our 3rd party compatibility styling and go back to periodically releasing a theme with specific and more thorough styling for a specific extension. Conversely, this means that those common extensions will have no compatibility styling at all unless we expressly provide support for one in a particular template.
To be honest, i'm leaning more towards option #2. It would save us considerable time and would allow us to be able to put more effort into other parts of the template development process. Also we would have the ability to periodically pick a custom extension and really go to town integrating it into the design.
I'm interested to hear your opinions on this matter....
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- imagine4D
- Hero Rocketeer
- Posts: 409
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- Project developer
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I think option two is the better choice, sounds like you're spreading yourselves thin, and are then having to field user issues because a particular component is not styled 'deeply' enough.
If you go with option 2, you can get deep styling on particular components, the loss is less choice for users.
Right now I am using Omnicron with Jomsocial and I really like it though. I also like that because of the Gantry framework, I can easily slide in a new template (without need to fiddle with module placements), while also getting kewl effects in Jomsocial. That's great, but long term, I think RT is better with option 2.
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- Brian Peat
- Elite Rocketeer
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- Joomla and Wordpress site developer
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I guess I always assumed it was the extension that was crap, so I usually go looking there first when it doesn't look right. The annoying thing is MANY components and modules don't support template overrides. If they'd all just do that, we'd be in a better place. I don't want to have to hack a module because it uses generic css tags and can't be styled without "help" but I've had to do it many times.
Anyway, as much as it's a nice feature, it's not really your job to fix other peoples crappy works
- Brian Peat
Peat Creative
peatcreative.com
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- Rich Bean
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1194
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Personally, I'd prefer option 1. Why? The "JomSocial and Affinity Thread". When JS changed/upgraded Affinity was "broken" and tons of people were bitch bitch bitch...I remember watching James and some other Mods pulling their hair out.
With the current system or "Compatibility" styling it's like having a jump start on getting things to look the way you want them.
I'd also image all the new posts on How to Change JS to look like my template etc etc etc.
Just my two cents anyway!
Cheers,
R - My Sites:
Perth Website Design
Scuba Marketing
I'm a Henning Stalker!
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- Sharon Gaughan
- Sr. Rocketeer
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- Information Science & Technology
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Andy, I voted for Option 2, but this conversation could be enriched by considering a related issue.
I think it would be a major improvement if RT adopted consistent file naming, placement, and css standards across the template family. If someone asks for Template A, "Where do I find the 'pill' formatting?" the answer would apply in multiple situations. This would make one-answer-satisfies-all a near-realistic possibility and lighten everyone's workload. A special "solved" sub-section then becomes a global resource.
Let us extend that further and loop directly back to your topic. Adopting consistent conventions means the 3rd party developers would have a guide to work with if they want to play nice with RT. At the very least, translating from one to the other would be easier and encourage standards in the bargain.
While I feel somewhat annoyed by people who come here expecting custom work on the cheap, I can relate to some of their frustrations. Too many 3rd-party extension developers have a narrow field of view anchored in their own products, not the overall operations of a target website that uses those products. People over-promise and in desperation look for answers, even in the wrong places. Such is life and IT. - Sharon Sinéad Gaughan
Fairfax, VA USA
Apache / MySQL 5.0.95 / PHP 5.3.24 / Joomla! 2.5.20 / Gantry 4.1.20
Custom: rt_hexeris-custom.css and rt_hexeris-custom.less
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- Jason Hull
- Sr. Rocketeer
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- Website Designer
- I want it all... and I'm willing to pay for it. Is there not a third option... a way to pay extra for k2 styling or tienda styling etc.? Because not every site we build needs everything and it might be a money-making win-win.
- Jason Hull
OpenPotion Website Design
Property Management Websites
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- Rich Bean
- Elite Rocketeer
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- LOL at OpenPotion! :cheesy:
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- Rich Bean
- Elite Rocketeer
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How is that insufficient?
Option 1 is the way it currently is, whereas option 2 is the way it was...
Would you prefer if people just built your site for you?
- My Sites:
Perth Website Design
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I'm a Henning Stalker!
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- Rich Bean
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1194
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OK So have given this some more thought and also some thinking about what OpenPotion said...
Going from his statement of being willing to pay for the 3rd option (I would too btw), I had also mentioned in another thread the lack of use/direction for the "RocketLabs".
What about making rocketlabs the place to facilitate these tightly integrated extension specific templates?
Obviously, this would have to be an extra paid membership option since I'm assuming there would be a need for more staff to accommodate the increased workload. That way the template specific modifications to whatever components could come out two weeks or a month later, much like phpbb3 themes.
Then you could still use or even scale back the compatibility option.
Cheers,
R - My Sites:
Perth Website Design
Scuba Marketing
I'm a Henning Stalker!
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