Can't wrap my head around Particles - old dog here
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- Teresa Murphy
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 122
- Thanks: 2
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I don't understand why site CONTENT is buried in the Particles. I just cannot understand this.
Aren't templates supposed to be about structure and control? Isn't there supposed to be a separation of church and state? I try to figure out how to get my content remotely similar to the demo content and so much of it is buried in what feels like very hard-coded, static particles. I'm frustrated by this. I surely must not be understanding this properly, but it's not for a lack of trying.
I also am not understanding why it feels like it takes an act of congress to get a Joomla article to look decent such that it shows the templates 'read more' button and acts as expected without getting your own hard-coded button treatment involved and going through machinations to have it open up in the right way. Yes, I know the technical answer why, but zero solution other than hard-code it yourself all the time?
What if you have a dynamic site with a lot of content that needs to look good, not just a lot of permanent, pretty blocks of stuff? What if you really do want others to be able to submit some content without having to know how to add custom buttons and such? I read through the many many chunks of documents, but I still can't pull it together on the overall approach.
I didn't want to go to a 3rd party blogging solution. Do any of those play well with G5? I was wanting to stay with core Joomla. Maybe I do have to bail on Joomla entirely. Is WP treated the same way when it comes to articles? I'm tired of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I'm starting to seriously think maybe I need to switch platforms.
I was wondering why "Joomla content" disappeared from the demo templates as something to look at quite a while ago. Those demo pages were always the ugly stepchildren anyway, but they seem to have been disowned entirely. I guess I'm realizing why. I've installed several RT themes and sites in the past. It's been a while and I'm back at it, but dang, I'm having a hard time with this. I thought it would be easier. I guess I'm just getting older. Maybe you can't teach an old dog new tricks afterall. I'm missing something and I don't know what to read to have it make more sense. Do I switch to WP? - Last Edit: 8 years 8 months ago by Teresa Murphy.
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- MrT
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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- Thanks: 13484
- Web Designer/Developer
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What template are you using? The free templates are basic in nature whereas the commercial ones have much more functionality. Also, with the commercial templates you have the "rocketlauncher" package which recreates the demo exactly. This package also use joomla modules assigned to module position (which you are probably familiar with). There is also a "Gantry 5 particle" module that allows you to put a particle into a module.
Particles are very simlar to joomla modules in nature. So why have them?
1. because it much easier to write and configure particles to do what you want using YAML and TWIG - you don't have to be a php coder to get rich functionality from a particle.
2. particles are CMS agnostic - meaning that the same particle will work on Joomla CMS as well as Wordpress CMS (and soon GRAV CMS).
The standalone template packages do not use joomla modules or module positions. Instead they put the particles directly onto the layout of the outline. This is for demo purposes only. When creating your own site your layout should consist predominantly of module position particles into which you assign Joomla modules as you always have. That said, if you do want to put particles directly onto the layout then you can (but this will drive you down the route of having to create multiple outlines as the content is likely to be page specific). What you can also do with particles is to have them inherit from other outlines too (e.g. you could put a logo particle in the base outlines layout and configure it once there and then have your other outlines inherit that logo and all it's settings so you don't have to create particle duplicates).
I encourage you to read the Gantry 5 documentation http://docs.gantry.org/gantry5/basics which is very details and also include some videos too.
There is no doubt that there is a learning curve to go through with Gantry 5 but I am confident that if you invest a little time all will become clear and you will love Gantry 5 (that has certainly been what we have seen with thousands of members).
I hope that helps.
Regards, Mark. - Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information.
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- Teresa Murphy
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 122
- Thanks: 2
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I'm wanting to use the Callisto template. I've done it both ways, RLauncher with sample data and one without.
The fact that particles are CMS agnostic is fine for you guys, but for me and my site, once I commit to a platform, that's it. I'm not going to be switching around. But I understand how it's beneficial for a multi-client developer or RT itself. As far as YAML and TWIG, those are greek acronymns to me that I have to go learn about. I never wrote php code to do what I needed to do in the past either. I'm capable of mucking around in it quite well, but I've never written a solution from scratch. I'm just being frank. And honestly, having to put content in the template makes the possibility of switching out to a different template platform at some point in the future virtually impossible. So, while it may be somehow beneficial from one point of view, it's not from another. I know! Why would I ever change template platforms?! After all these years, I've been pretty darn loyal to RT templates. Support is the BEST by far. No comparison anywhere. You guys set the bar.
I have read the docs. I know everytime someone doesn't understand something, the answer is always to go read them. I know way better than to ask something without having read them first. I haven't taken the time to watch the videos, because I personally find videos painfully slow. I suppose if I continue, I'll have to watch them and hope there is more meat in them than the write-ups.
Yes, I get the basics about particles, like changing the logo or whatever, adding classes, inheriting, etc, outlines, etc. I've already done all of that and worked through how to do it at my superficial level.
I still want the main focus of my content to be from the articles, but it honestly feels like the least supported aspect. I notice you didn't respond to my comments about that. That's my real pain. I'd suffer through making the rest of it work if basic article presentation and ongoing maintenance and management of the content wasn't so difficult.
I have a very old--ancient in fact--but huge and vitally important html site that I need to convert to Joomla. LOTS of content. I'm about talking myself out of putting it on Joomla at all, sadly. I've resisted WP all this time. Maybe I need to get over it.
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- MrT
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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It'll be much easier for me to help you if you give me a specific example rather than lots of general comments.
If you want to create modules and assign them to module positions and create articles then you can still do that in Gantry 5 in exactly the same way that you always have. If you don't want to take advantage of the new features and abilites of Gantry 5 then you do have to. and if you don't want to use particles then again you don't have to (apart from the module positions on the layout).
Let's tackle your specific issues one at a time and I'll be very glad to help you.
I would comment that Callisto is our very first commercial template when we introduced Gantry 5. As such, we were still learning at that stage too and it's not the best example of "best practice" when building a Gantry 5 site because it does have more outlines that it really needs and does put lots of content directly onto the layout. The template does work fine and is a nice template but it is not the easiest of our template to understand as a beginner on Gantry 5. So, I do understand your confusion and frustration if your are starting out with Callisto. Are you committed to using Callisto? Would you consider changing to another of our more recent templates?
I checked your subscription and it appears to have expired? I guess you downloaded Callisto before that time - and you may not have the latest version either?
It might appear a bit flippant to say "read the documentation" but honestly there is a lot of new terminology with Gantry 5 that you need to at least understand in principle otherwise you are going to get confused. so it is the best place to start. The next place to learn from is to load a rocketlauncher copy of you chosen template - I.d suggest "Xenon" as one of the more easily understood templates.
You may not have written PHP in the past but I'll bet that you have installed third-party extensions to add functionality to your site. Particles give you ability to create your own functionality in plain text using two simple languages called "YAML" and "TWIG" they're no harder to use than HTML it but they are extremely powerful. You don't have to do this, I was just trying to explain the advanges of particles over modules.
Articles are fully supported (can be used just like you always have) plus some of our particles can now source their content from joomla articles too (e.g. the "joomla article" particle). Or of course you can continue to use our roksprocket modules for neat ways on presenting article content.
So, Gantry 5 compliments the functionality that you are already used too (it doesn't take anything away). But of course somethings are done a little differently so you do need to go through the learning curve.
Regards, Mark. - Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information.
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- Teresa Murphy
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 122
- Thanks: 2
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Thanks. So, I used to do all my own stuff, but I'm now a client of OSTech. I logged in under my old id because I didn't want my questions and frustrations to seem to come from them. They are highly experienced and can fix and solve anything for me, but for this project, in the long run, I'll be turning over a fair amount of backend management to some of my own SMEs because this site is too large for one person. And this project is the mother of all my sites. I really need to have my hands directly in it.
I liked Callisto best as I feel it presents a fair amount of info upfront. I was never quite happy with the other templates. I suppose I could try Xenon. I think I had tried it before--a number of months ago. I guess I was turned off because on my laptop, the demo is throwing two columns down the middle instead of three like the pic with a huge empty white space in the margins. It didn't look great. I suppose if I saw it with 3 columns I'd like it better. Fixable no doubt. This new site needs to look beyond great.
Knowing that Callisto isn't the best example is encouraging. I've always tried to pick from the most current templates, but it's a challenge.
Yes, I've installed a mountain of 3rd party extensions and feel like I've written a book on the VMart forum about various topics in the past. I've been in pretty deep with a lot of things, including some heavily customized jReviews sites as well. I'm tired of having to go that deep. This time around I'm wanting to stay as vanilla as possible to avoid all the dramas on incompatibility errors on upgrades and such and vendors moving at their own pace to keep up with things, leaving you stuck in the past for too long. (and I don't mean jReviews--I think they rock--just in general)
Why are regular Joomla articles nowhere to be found on the demo sites anymore? No more Joomla article, Joomla blog.
Can you explain the "read more" aspect of content to me? All the demos are all mocked up content with beautiful read more buttons that go nowhere of course (#). They never link to any deeper content. So, how do I take a Joomla article (say 50 of them) with it's 'read more' inserted into it by the author and have it display like one would think it should? Maybe it was the Callisto template, but I'm struggling with that. - Last Edit: 8 years 8 months ago by Teresa Murphy.
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- MrT
- Preeminent Rocketeer
- Posts: 101084
- Thanks: 13484
- Web Designer/Developer
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Joomla articles and Joomla blog implementation is just standard Joomla and easy to implement. We don't add it to the demos because of that very reason - Gantry 5 works on different CMS's so we don't want to make the demo specific to a particular CMS.
So, If you want to implement a Joomla blog. Go to joomla menu manager - new - category blog - pick the category containing your articles. Next, what outline is being used for that page? (most likely the default outline - the one that is starred in template manager). Go to the layout of that outline in Gantry 5 admin and ensure that there is a "page content" particle somewhere on that layout (this is where all Joomla component output is rendered). That's it - if you now go to the menu item on the frontend you should see your articles.
Which readmore are you referring to specifically and in what template? There are a variety of different ones.
If you mean how do you split your article into an "intro" and "fulltext" - again this is standard Joomla. You just insert a "system-readmore" break in the article (there is a button for that in the editor). When you show a blog it will show the intro of the article and automatically add the readmore that will take you to the full article.
Please would you post your URL, superuser id and pswd in the secure tab of your post and i'll have a look for you.
Regards, Mark. - Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information.
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