How about a Mambo Template Club
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- Youyou
- Elite Rocketeer
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I will give my first impression on this subject ... RT you have the exclusivity lol
I have no idea in fact ... ;D
No seriously, I like a lot the principe of the GNU GPL but I think in this case it is a bit too rigid.
I have no one notion of law and I have just read a bit (just a bit) the differents licences.
I am also a very little joomla user which don't use or produces commercial extension ... so my opinion is not really interesting.
Anyway, to my mind I don't know why this story has going so far.
It is a play of word ... you can interpret the license with lot of meaning (I know this is not a good english).
For me even if the extensions make calls to some joomla routines they could be considered as a separate work.
And to illustrate the fact that it is a play of word, I will just give an example: These extension could be after separate into two extensions one called bridge which will makes the calls to joomla routines and return some output used by the other extension (called the commercial extension). One will be after released as GPL and the other as commercial licence. And finally ... what is the best for the community ?
Another example, the developper of an extension could rewrite the joomla routines invoked, create this own to question the database and then the extension would be considered as a separate entity ... the problem is that we will have lot of the same functions, whereas one directly created by the Joomla devs, surely the better, exist in the joomla core ... seems to be ridicule and again what is the best for the community ?
So to my mind, the extensions could be considered as well as the templates like separate work. The reason invoked for the templates are the fact there is some pictures and css ... anyway in an extension there is also some great piece of code written only by the extension developper and there is no reason to underevaluate this work, it is as difficult as create a css or design a layout.
Just my two cents
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- Daniel Chapman
- Elite Rocketeer
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craig loose wrote:
I stand corrected! I had never seen itThere will be no more Real Estate Sites.
thats not entirely true daniel - there is a verygood GPL real estate software called CMS Realty
its a bridge for joomla and open realty - (although open realty is not GPL)
craig loose wrote:And on the topic.None of them are stopping their support at all. They are just not going to develop for 1.5. They are continuing to fix bugs in 1.0, and looking for alternatives for the future.
like andy said - its not only disrespectful that these devs have left users and joomla alone, its also bad business practice, all the users that paid there subscriptions should be entitled to what they paid for
thats support and updates/bug fixes
They have no other options. Many of them simply will not survive if they were forced to release their code GPL.
Voluntary suicide is worse for the customers than changing CMS's.
They don't want to change CMS's but the Joomla team is forcing their hand. Who is really doing the disrespect here? Contrary to what OSM would have you believe, plenty of other GPL CMS's allow proprietry extensions, in fact all of the other Mambo family CMS's do!
Why this need for OSM to start throwing around words like 'sue', 'compliance', 'violate' and the current J! forum favourite! 'Consult your own lawer for advice' wtf?? I need to have a lawyer now before I can do any programming... ???
craig loose wrote:there are always more devs primed and ready to take there place, its just a matter of waiting, till the storm blows overThen where have these devs been all this time? Where were they for the numerous GPL projects that currently go unsupported and undeveloped? There is no shortage of projects looking for developers. All of the big GPL projects are always looking for more people, but they don't get them very often.
Where is this fountain of endless developers that everyone seems to think are going to pour out to balm the wounds?
Yes there is and always will be a trickle of new devs joining Joomla. But as I said above there is no magical army of 100+ developers with years of experience programming mambo family products just waiting in the shadows for the 'evil non GPL' guys to take off.
The opportunity for these guys has always been here. But no one (barely anyone) showed up to take it. Why are they suddenly going to appear from now?
Heck even the Joomla Core team claims they are under staffed and need more people for testing and bug fixing! If the core is stuggling to find good people how can we be expected to believe that the extensions will attract a significant amount out of thin air.
craig loose wrote:the thing is - anyone who knows how and wants to - can create anything for joomla that they wantBut if I create it and don't release it. Then the community has gained nothing. We certainly haven't replaced anything.
they dont have to release it - either free or paid - does that mean there breaking the rules of GPL
as there software is not GPL - i highly doubt it - and anyways who would know?
The commercial devs were very popular with people because not everyone can code. Joomla is so easy to use that people with no programming experience can build a sh1t hot website for under $100.
Even though these people could technically have coded the components themselves, realistically it's impossible.
I do believe Joomla will recover however, but I am just not sure how quickly or slowly it will be. That is what is up in the air. Also up in the air is if another cms will become a more viable choice than Joomla, further slowing Joomlas recovery, or even putting a stop to it altogether.
Joomla is a great CMS, but without it's extensions it's not much to look at other than for displaying text and images. - Last Edit: 17 years 10 months ago by Daniel Chapman.
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www.ninjoomla.com
- The Ninjoomla Open Source Extension Club
Over 50 open source extensions and 100 videos to you build the site you want.
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- GollumX
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 2817
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Templates for Mambo?
This is just not going to happen. However, let me take this opportunity to again put in a request for WP and/or Drupal themes.
- Say no to Internet Explorer 6.
twitter.com/mark_up
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- Richie Mortimer
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 174
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Daniel Chapman wrote:
craig loose wrote:I stand corrected! I had never seen itThere will be no more Real Estate Sites.
thats not entirely true daniel - there is a verygood GPL real estate software called CMS Realty
its a bridge for joomla and open realty - (although open realty is not GPL)
craig loose wrote:And on the topic.None of them are stopping their support at all. They are just not going to develop for 1.5. They are continuing to fix bugs in 1.0, and looking for alternatives for the future.
like andy said - its not only disrespectful that these devs have left users and joomla alone, its also bad business practice, all the users that paid there subscriptions should be entitled to what they paid for
thats support and updates/bug fixes
They have no other options. Many of them simply will not survive if they were forced to release their code GPL.
Voluntary suicide is worse for the customers than changing CMS's.
They don't want to change CMS's but the Joomla team is forcing their hand. Who is really doing the disrespect here? Contrary to what OSM would have you believe, plenty of other GPL CMS's allow proprietry extensions, in fact all of the other Mambo family CMS's do!
Why this need for OSM to start throwing around words like 'sue', 'compliance', 'violate' and the current J! forum favourite! 'Consult your own lawer for advice' wtf?? I need to have a lawyer now before I can do any programming... ???
craig loose wrote:there are always more devs primed and ready to take there place, its just a matter of waiting, till the storm blows overThen where have these devs been all this time? Where were they for the numerous GPL projects that currently go unsupported and undeveloped? There is no shortage of projects looking for developers. All of the big GPL projects are always looking for more people, but they don't get them very often.
Where is this fountain of endless developers that everyone seems to think are going to pour out to balm the wounds?
Yes there is and always will be a trickle of new devs joining Joomla. But as I said above there is no magical army of 100+ developers with years of experience programming mambo family products just waiting in the shadows for the 'evil non GPL' guys to take off.
The opportunity for these guys has always been here. But no one (barely anyone) showed up to take it. Why are they suddenly going to appear from now?
Heck even the Joomla Core team claims they are under staffed and need more people for testing and bug fixing! If the core is stuggling to find good people how can we be expected to believe that the extensions will attract a significant amount out of thin air.
craig loose wrote:the thing is - anyone who knows how and wants to - can create anything for joomla that they wantBut if I create it and don't release it. Then the community has gained nothing. We certainly haven't replaced anything.
they dont have to release it - either free or paid - does that mean there breaking the rules of GPL
as there software is not GPL - i highly doubt it - and anyways who would know?
The commercial devs were very popular with people because not everyone can code. Joomla is so easy to use that people with no programming experience can build a sh1t hot website for under $100.
Even though these people could technically have coded the components themselves, realistically it's impossible.
I do believe Joomla will recover however, but I am just not sure how quickly or slowly it will be. That is what is up in the air. Also up in the air is if another cms will become a more viable choice than Joomla, further slowing Joomlas recovery, or even putting a stop to it altogether.
Joomla is a great CMS, but without it's extensions it's not much to look at other than for displaying text and images.
i stand corrected
- Joomla Extensions - www.ninjoomla.com
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- CG Icon
- Hero Rocketeer
- Posts: 371
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remember as kids,, running the street and acting all foolish,, how you would straighten up when the cops came around,, then after they left,, you went back to doing what it was you were doing?
same thing here, just let time slip by and all will go back to doing as they wish.......
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Just to go way out of topic.. is there some link to a site that in 10 lines explain what happends and what it means?
I got all the big discussions but I simply can't be "#¤#" to read all that.
Is there a link to a "We the commercial extension developers have moved away from Joomla" statement?
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- James Spencer
- Preeminent Rocketeer
- Posts: 46340
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Thomas wrote:
Just to go way out of topic.. is there some link to a site that in 10 lines explain what happends and what it means?
I got all the big discussions but I simply can't be "#¤#" to read all that.
Is there a link to a "We the commercial extension developers have moved away from Joomla" statement?
You mean like a list of devs who said they are leaving or just a summary of the whole situation
- James Spencer / Developer & Support / Hull, UK
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James S! wrote:
Thomas wrote:Just to go way out of topic.. is there some link to a site that in 10 lines explain what happends and what it means?
I got all the big discussions but I simply can't be "#¤#" to read all that.
Is there a link to a "We the commercial extension developers have moved away from Joomla" statement?
You mean like a list of devs who said they are leaving or just a summary of the whole situation
Both please
- Last Edit: 17 years 10 months ago by .
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- Peter Osipof
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1117
- Thanks: 0
- For now the only way to know is to be a member of Join Commercial Developers Association to have access to private forum, however Jomres has moved to Mambo and has made an official announcement the irony is I am in talks with a client in India to create a booking website for his guest house and I was considering Jomres reservations component.
- VirtueShop
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- Robert D. Wagers
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1545
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- Full-Time Cancer Fighter!
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My personal opinion is...
What if Joomla started requiring all commercial devs to purchase an annual license in order to sell and market commercial extensions. The devs would complain... "What happened to OpenSource Matters???" I agree with the decision to stick with GPL only.
Joomla has no control over commercial developers. What if a consumer had a particular dispute with said developer? If an abusive developer has no license... then Joomla doesn't have control over who develops what!! As you can see, the legalities could get messy and a developer of "FREE" software doesn't have the resources to regulate a commercial market. Plus, the described regulation would destroy the spirit of "Open Source Matters" IMHO. - "Everyone has to get knocked-down every once-in-a-while, otherwise you'll never learn how to get-back-up!
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A quote attributed to my Grandpa Wagers
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