Can Joomla templates be built using no tables?
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- Buddy Quaid
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I think there should be a campaign to persuay all 3rd party plugins/extra's to make two versions. One "normal" and one tableless for extra CSS layout options. Extra CSS hooks. the problem sometimes could be that "programmers" build these and are not really web developers and find it easier to use a table based layout for their plugin's, etc.
Or we could have a repository for taking 3rd party plugins and coverting them to css based layout options, which i'm sure we've all done at some point or another.
Buddy
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- Joe Halleck
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Buddy Quaid wrote:
Or we could have a repository for taking 3rd party plugins and coverting them to css based layout options, which i'm sure we've all done at some point or another.This second option sounds like great idea!
Half the battle in working the display issues is the methods used to get the browsers to do what you want.
More examples the better. - Last Edit: 17 years 6 months ago by Joe Halleck.
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- erc
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- Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but the whole tableless thing isn't purely hype. It goes a long way to improve accessibility. I know accessibility isn't a priority for a lot of people, but maybe it should be. Being able to turn off CSS and Javascript and seeing a nice clean neatly flowing page of information is a beautiful thing.
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- Dan L
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I never said it was purely hype; just that it's over hyped. If I thought there was no benefit, I wouldn't code all of my templates without tables.
What annoys me is when some people get on there high-horse when someone uses a few tables in a layout like it's a mortal sin or something.
The next big thing will be harping on about how great source-ordered tableless templates are.
Stuff that
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- Daniel Chapman
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Tables only improve accessibility when used properly -> that is for tabulated data.
Using a css based layout you can easily organize your data so it flows logically, and is easy to access.
If for example you were blind and using a screen reader, a tabled layout forces you to go through all the navigation options before you even get to the content. This is then repeated on every page.
For Google, it means your navigation will get indexed a lot more than your content, again because it's higher up the page in the table. This is ok of course if your site's search keywords are - Home, profile, forum, news etc. But I doubt many people's are.
If you happen to have an old pc with a low resolution, or want to resize your font because of bad eyesight, then tables can make this a painful process as they don't like to resize.
If you can only navigate via your keyboard, then, like the blind user, you will need to tab through every link in the navigation before you get to the content.
Navigation is also difficult if multiple tables cells are col or row spanned. Especially for the blind user. Who can't see the layout, and just hears that hs in navigation, then a content title, then navigation again, then content, then navigation, then content etc.
Some of these can be avoided by jump to content etc links. But it doesn't make tables any better for accessibility. It only potentially makes the site look better for a sighter reader, who can use a mouse but happens to have css off. -
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- erc
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Daniel Chapman wrote:
But it doesn't make tables any better for accessibility. It only potentially makes the site look better for a sighter reader, who can use a mouse but happens to have css off.
Oh no, I agree completely. I was saying that a table-less design improves accessibility, not a tabled one. I build sites for lots of state funded non-profit organizations, and I need to take screen readers into consideration when designing a site or choosing a template.
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- Daniel Chapman
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oops! My mistake. Glad we agree then
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