Joomla 1.0 or Joomla 1.5?
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Ok - a couple of points.
The RC thing - two things with this a) blame google - as they started this business of its ok to put something out to the market whilst still in Beta - as its free whos going to complane AND b) You have to remember that Open source projects are always going to suffer like this as the point of open source is to get every one involved - however most of us arent programmers and therefore we have to sit by waiting for the clever and the good to anti-up the final product. And we non coders forget how long it can take to write code. This is not limited to Joomla - SoopPortal has been suffering with this for years - and they also hit problems over licences.
Next point - What exactly is the new licence with 1.5? - I started reading the threads at Joomla but got too bogged down with people sounding off about lots of different issues. i know it has caused a problem for extension develepers, but im not clear what.
Last - what featere did the core team leave out GollumX?
Thanks for the responces though - very interesting.
Dave
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- Robert Carter
- Jr. Rocketeer
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GollumX, you are entitled to ignore my post if you wish, but I have been involved in the development of custom add-ons for many of the more popular CMS systems (Drupal, Joomla!, Subdreamer and others) and also have extensive knowledge of PHP, MySQL, Javascript, ASP, Perl, Flash, Xhtml and CSS styling - so I do know what I am talking about. And believe me, the Joomla 1.5 core is rubbish. You just don't know it yet. Wait until it goes gold and extension makers start focussing their efforts on coding for the new system. Then you will know what I mean. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Drupal is currently the best open source CMS on the market, but the skins are absolute shite. Unless you can design a good template yourself, it is definitely worth sticking with Joomla 1.0.13. Rocket Theme's templates are excellent. But if they made some skins for Drupal, 90% of the people on here would be switching ASAP. (Expression Engine is perhaps the most awesome of all the CMS systems - trouble is, it's like £300!) - The secret of immortality is to live a life worth remembering.
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Rob - taking it as read that 'you know what your talking about' how about being a bit more open and saying what you think is wrong with the core - it is unstable or has big security issues - this is the sort of info that would be usefull to people like me, who will not really know why our sites are crashing or falling apart as we watch.
Being old i want to lock you and GollumX in a room and not let you out until your friends (or dead)- i think you both have some very valid points, but it would be helpfull to others here if the comments were more constructive.
From the outside looking in Expression Engine looks OK, but too me doesn't seem to offer anything mere than Joomla except a price tag (and hopefully good support) - so to me the choice is obvious - but thats because i don't know anything about the 'core'.
Any way - thanks ALL for your comments, nd to every one who has voted. Would be good to hear from the person running 1.5 to let us know what they think is so good - are you running it in Legacy mode??
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- GollumX
- Elite Rocketeer
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www.joomla.org/component/option,com_jd-wp/Itemid,105/p,446/
This was posted yesterday or today, depending on the time-zone. - Say no to Internet Explorer 6.
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- Matthew
- Hero Rocketeer
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Robert Carter wrote:
GollumX, you are entitled to ignore my post if you wish, but I have been involved in the development of custom add-ons for many of the more popular CMS systems (Drupal, Joomla!, Subdreamer and others) and also have extensive knowledge of PHP, MySQL, Javascript, ASP, Perl, Flash, Xhtml and CSS styling - so I do know what I am talking about. And believe me, the Joomla 1.5 core is rubbish. You just don't know it yet. Wait until it goes gold and extension makers start focussing their efforts on coding for the new system. Then you will know what I mean. Don't say I didn't warn you.
What is it, specifically, about the core of 1.5 that is rubbish? I've just started writing components for it, and I have not found anything worth complaining about, compared to 1.0.x.
The fact that 1.5 is not a monolith, and thus only loads as much code overhead as is needed, is probably one of the best improvements. I know that other CMS do this, but this thread isn't about Joomla! vs. other CMS, but about 1.0.x vs. 1.5.
The templating potential of 1.5 is also much better than 1.0.x - if the biggest strength of Joomla! is the availability of great templates (a fairly consensus opinion), then 1.5 will be much better, since the templates can be much better. The ability to override the HTML output of just about everything allows template makers to really take the gloves off, instead of having to design around certain key J! features.
Additionally, 1.5 seems to have improved security and accessibility, and an expanded and improved API as well.
The things that I don't like about 1.5 is that we have no real idea of when it will finalized, and migrating from a 1.0.x site to a 1.5 site might not be very pretty. Starting from the ground up, however, 1.5 seems like a fine choice, as long as the components are available (in native 1.5 mode) to do what the site needs to do. - www.gofftech.com Web Design
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- GollumX
- Elite Rocketeer
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As always, Mathew is spot on!
Hi Robert,
Notice that Mathew was specific about what he liked about 1.5 (as opposed to saying, "It's rubbish" or "It's great"). Reviews like that carry weight. Please tell me what exactly you dislike about the 1.5 core. Not enough comments in the code? Too much white-space? Ineffective garbage collection?
I should mention here again that Joomla won the " Best PHP CMS " at the Open Source Awards, and the judges specifically mentioned 1.5 was a factor in their decision, despite it not even being stable yet.
The success, or failure of Joomla 1.5 will decide the course of my future in this business, so your review is of great interest to me. Please expound on your bad experience with the core. I am certainly not going to defend Joomla 1.5 so fear not, there shall be no flaming... I would sincerely like to know of any shortcomings in the core (apart from the license
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- Thomas Stoecklein
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Since i'm the lone J! 1.5 vote, I figured I might as well chime in with my thoughts on the issue.
With Gaming Lessons, we're currently trying to "revamp" everything for the future - from guiding philosophies, to design, to service, offerings, etc. - and it was important that everything was built upon the "latest and greatest." Right now, I'm working with RC3 - and yes, there are some problems.
But I view those problems as completely acceptable and necessary - what we need (cough - RocketWerx components - cough) are only available for/will be available for J! 1.5.
Beyond that, it's important that we have everything ready to roll - the sheer amount of effort it would take to convert a site from 1.0 to 1.5 just seems to be unacceptable at this stage. While that might change, this was the second main reason why we decided to go with J! 1.5.
I think it all comes down to what you need - that's what dictates your choice of platform (Matthew hit the nail on the head earlier). For us, being tied to a platform version that was being led to the slaughterhouse, the need for certain J! 1.5 extensions, and the performance requirements all but guaranteed that J! 1.5 would be powering the new site.
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Thomas - thanks for the comments.
The components for 1.5 will be the deciding factor on how successfull 1.5 is - same as it was for 1.0 - without them the base offering from Joomla is not really any different from other CMS offerings (.NetNuke for one) And the transition from 1.5 in legacy mode to full 1.5 components is the critical step.
Like you looking forward for the RocketWerx components as there a few in there that look very good, and the sort of thing i want for my site.
As i stated before the biggest frustration for is non coders is the wait, because we cant really understand why things take so long, and going from 1 RC to another isn't hugely engaging for us.
GollumX - i haven't read all the terms in the new licence, but i would suspect that although it may be restrictive on the 3rd party developer it is not entirely verboten for you to make a return on developing components (i could be wrong!). I certainly hope not otherwise it will restrict Joomla's growth into something other than a hobbiests interest.
All the best guys - this has been a very interesting thread.
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- Joe K
- Elite Rocketeer
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- Want to make sure my opinion didn't come off all negative on Joomla. If fact, it is just the opposite, I think it is amazing. Add in what Andy and RT bring to the table and it is a hard to beat combo. I just think 1.5 is confusing and until there is one version I will stick to 1.0
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- Roger Michaels
- Newbie
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I'm not sure how useful my comments will be here, but I've been using Joomla 1.x for a couple years now. I recently installed 1.5 RC3 for my next website, and was instantly floored by it. The interface is beautifully overhauled, things are far more intuitive now, and a few bugs that 1.13 had, seemed to have disappeared (like non-functional template previews on mouse hover).
I can't speak for its core, nor stability just yet, but I really love what I've seen so far.
-- I will note that I cannot get Dimension 1.5 working correctly (all sorts of issues, and only randomly re-produceable even from a fresh install).
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