Doubts about updates and purchases
-
-
- Andras
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 139
- Thanks: 2
-
I've been a Joomla Template Club member for 7 years. I've always renewed my membership after receiving the reminder email informing about expiration and I never cared too much to check things. However this March my membership expired silently without receiving an email reminder. Today I was to grab a fresh copy of Kirigami template for a local test when I discovered that I'm not a member anymore.
Then I discovered that membership matters changed quite a bit and now a 1 year membership with loyality savings is still much more expensive than my last year membership. So I've started to think about if I really need a membership as these times I use only the Kirigami template and I've seen that templates now can be purchased also one by one.
But then I've discovered that updates are problematic and now I don't know what I could really get with a subscription or a single purchase from the updates viewpoint. Indeed I've installed an older copy of Kirigami template on my fresh local Joomla 3.3 installation and according the Joomla Control Panel there are no extension updates while the installed Kirigamy template version is still at 1.5 and not the last 1.8 version. Then I've checked my 2 live Kirigami websites and I've discovered that the template never went updated with the rest of the extensions (while Gantry updates went fine). The older one (Joomla 2.5) is still at Kirigami v.1.4 while showing all extensions up to date. The newer one (Joomla 3) is still at Kirigami 1.6 with all extensions up to date status.
This rises questions about template updates in general:
After subscriptions expires we cannot get any update to the old templates when they get updated? If one month after expiration a transition from Joomla 3.3 to 3.4 breaks the template we have no luck?
And what about a single template purchase? Can I download updates from RT website or is the same situation of an expired subscription?
So far I thought templates are updating together other extensions, but now I have doubts about template update possibilities and I dont't know what I really get with a template purchase other than the price increase.
-
-
-
- cdavis411
- Preeminent Rocketeer
- Posts: 17787
- Thanks: 882
- Thank you for your input. Membership issues such as this are usually best handled by RT Support staff using the form here. www.rockettheme.com/contact-us
-
-
-
- David Goode
- Preeminent Rocketeer
- Posts: 17058
- Thanks: 890
- Web Designer and Host
-
Hi there,
Just to clarify on the updates. Templates are not considered to be extensions as such and therefore they do not get checked and notified in the same as way as extensions.
If you consider we have many members who customise templates and if we had a single click update operation on templates I can only guess at how many unhappy members and website owners there would be as a result! As it is we have many requests on fixing sites where members just clicked Joomla Upgrade with no back up or safety net in case things go wrong.
I hope this clarifies the reason for templates not showing as 'update avaialable'. You could bookmark this page - www.rockettheme.com/product-updates - and check regularly for updates.
Membership - lots of info here - www.rockettheme.com/docs/accounts_billing/comparisons.md - especially at bottom of page as this answers your question on downloads and updates.
Hope this helps
Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information
-
-
-
- Kat05
- Preeminent Rocketeer
- Posts: 25898
- Thanks: 334
-
hi there,
regarding the pricing module, there have been minor adjustments last year which where announced in this blog post:
www.rockettheme.com/blog/team/76-15-off-...nt-new-pricing-model
previously, the 12 months membership was priced at $90, with a discount it was $75.
now, the 12 months membership is priced at $99, with loyalty savings it is $79.
the difference is really only $4.
i am not sure why you did not receive the expiration email, we do send them out as usual and often get email replies to those notifications. i'll check back with our team though, if they are aware of any issues.
kat
-
The following users have thanked you: cdavis411
- Kat05 / QA Lead & Support / Germany
-
-
-
- Andras
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 139
- Thanks: 2
-
Thank you for the replies!
I understand that for you these issues and changes in it are familiar as you deal with them a lot every day. However please understand that common members are not checking everyday product update info pages and new pages about product comparisons and changes in membership policy, but tend toward a set and forget attitude.
cdavis411, so far I learned that the preferred free support method is by Forum, not individual requests, and I think we are talking also about general issues, useful to everyone interested in updates and choosing purchase method.
David, I understand your point on the possibility to overwrite customised files with updates. However all over this forum it was told us to put css overrides in custom css files and a single click update should not overwrite these custom css files.
Moreover we have to install templates via the Extension Manager as any other extension. So it's natural to expect to see their updates in the same Extension Manager. Probably I'm not the only one to expect this so I think it would be useful to put this in clear evidence, explain it and emphasise it also in the Product Comparisons pages too. (If it's there please excuse me, I haven't noticed it.)
Also because in this manner subscribers are forced to never quit the templates club if they don't want to risk to stop suddenly the use of the templates they have already installed due to a complete and immediate lack of updates if not renewing. In all these years I've accumulated 21 site licenses, but they could became completely useless in any moment if, let's say, a Joomla update from 3.3 to 3.4 breaks my templates I already use and I have no possibility to update them either via the Extension Manager updater or downloading updates of old templates from RT website.
Kat, the price increase is not slight, but a multiple of the inflation rate in most western (and not western) countries. However I understand that you put a lot of work in your products and I'm not saying that they are not reasonably priced. If they are expensive or cheap depends also on the use we can make of them in the given moment. For me personally in this moment the membership tends to be expensive, but if I don't renew the amounts already paid in previuous years can result in a complete waste of money as I cannot update anymore the template I already use.
I don't know what happened this year to your subscription reminder but I still have your old reminders from previous years, but nothing from this year.
Moreover the difference to last year is not only $4, but $14 as the 12 months membership with loyalty savings in my account is $89 and not $79.
It's not a cheap price considering that for the moment probably I'd use only one template (the wonderful and versatile Kirigami) only on a few websites.
- Last Edit: 10 years 6 months ago by Andras.
-
-
-
- MrArtist
- Jr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 33
- Thanks: 0
-
I too am finding it difficult to justify the potential costs of me carrying on. I've hardly used my membership in the last nine months (due to client and my own difficulties/inactivity) and I note from my club details I even got myself 6 licences at one point when I must have been feeling optimistic and I'm still only using about two of them!
From my point of view, it's hardly worth considering the 3 or 6 month membership as it's quite poor value per month, and with less licenses, and I'd always have to renew anyway to keep on top of template revisions and the extension/plugin updates.
Looking at my 12 month renewal fee for Joomla Club (showing as $79 before expiry) and whilst contemplating switching some sites to Wordpress, I'm a little disappointed that the cost of adding the WordPress club to my membership is yet another $89 for 12 months (only $10 off!).
On top of that, I'd maybe like to try Magento and see what I can do with that but at $169pa (inc $10 off) it's out of the question. It would be great to try RT things for Wordpress and Magento especially as I know how RT works, but I just can't justify the cost when it's all hardly used by me at the moment. Its a kind of chicken and egg situation, I can't get going again with my website developments until I earn enough money at it, I can't earn enough money at it until I get going again, and if I'm broke again in a year's time, so will my sites be eventually as RT updates and improvements would not be implemented. It's unfortunate and despite my trust and knowledge in the use of RT to date, it's not helping me decide to continue.
It's a shame your subscription model is not a little bit more forgiving for people like me, maybe like quite a lot of experimenting web designer/developer learners/creators in fact? I'd like to see something that might let me switch my licenses between the platforms, able to experiment and learn, see what I can do and then increase my membership to a higher level if I ever get better at this game. Like Adobe's Creative Cloud (CC), joining RT is a bit of a lock-in, it's all or nothing and having RT for unlimited use (Developer subs) with continual (required) updates for our ever-changing web-based CMS platforms, it would actually work out quite a bit more expensive than the whole of Adobe's entire range of CC programs.
As things stand, I think I'm going to have to leave. It's just too expensive and after reviewing all the changes for your v3 site revisions, I can't see it's got a whole lot easier to find things, in fact, what with all the Bootstrap spacious simplicity applied everywhere, you seem to have lost a whole lot of the RT unique styling. The useful features you had, the handy links and sidebars with site info that used to enable me to see what's what a bit easier have all gone. e.g. now to find out about the extensions/plugins I have to continually dip in and out of each one's details (mind you that part of it wasn't that great before), or for templates, keep having to click the annoying "Show More Items" (yes I know I can hold shift but never remember to do so).
The Forum is definitely looking better, I haven't reviewed its content but I hope a lot of the old out of date misinformation has been sidelined/retired. Oh and one last thing, that "hamburger" icon menu always used for narrow screens/mobile devices, I hate it, all it does is make things confusing when all visuals of our beautiful menus disappear for mobile users and instead appears as whole long text menus that shoot the screen content down, when instead I found it quite easy to shrink/compact my menus onto multi-rows keeping the full context of the design always showing and helping users know what's what and where they are.
I'm sorry, I think you've gone in the wrong direction for my liking, the subscription model doesn't help people like me and each new template is yet another styling of all the similar bootstrap templates out there when I'd rather see more adjustability built into a more universal template system, almost like you manage to do on your template demo pages - that I would pay for! Yes each of your templates are great and look good, you have some clever tricks and methodology going on but I just can't justify it any longer at this moment in time. Sorry.
-
-
-
- David Goode
- Preeminent Rocketeer
- Posts: 17058
- Thanks: 890
- Web Designer and Host
-
Hi there,
I think there will always be a group of members who are doing web work as a supplement to their day job. If they have family as well then the amount of time spent on web work will be minimal and for these people the cost of developer membership seems unjustified.
However, if the work being done is chargeable then the lifetime purchase of a single template is great value for money and would be charged to the client anyway. This removes the template update issue straight away.
It is also worth remembering that the Gantry Framework and the Gantry template are free and you can experiment with these as much as you wish. I often start with a plain gantry set up and then customise to match the client's requirements. This site uses plain gantry which I then customised - scanning-document.co.uk/
Membership will always be subjective to each individual but at the end of the day we are a business and we cannot afford to subsidise individual learning cycles of a minority of our members. Especially when we provide FREE support and it is those learning members who use most of our support resources.
Even if you did 2 Joomla sites a year and added $50 to each site to cover the template then you have paid for your membership and each site after that still pays the overhead so you make more profit. Simple business economics.
I hope you will see your way to remaining a member as the values are great.
Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information
-
-
-
- MrArtist
- Jr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 33
- Thanks: 0
-
Hi David
I take your point(s) and of course I have in effect charged my clients as much as I can for paying towards the various things I subscribe to. And by the way, this is my day job (and night!). I am a freelance designer working across the print and digital fields, it's almost impossible to just work in one specific area these days, they all want the book, the website and the app and I find RT useful for it's snap in and go ability.
However, it's not possible for me to just buy a template and be done with it is it? To know and try the templates I have to be a member of the specific club, and now with my requirement/interest in trying Wordpress and Magento I would have to purchase yet another membership. With RT there's no ability to try and decide and then make a lifetime purchase, and no ability to swap between platforms (i.e Joomla, WordPress, Magento & phpBB)
In all reality I'm actually only using one of my six Joomla licenses at the moment. I need to continue development on some of my other (non RT based) sites and I was thinking about Wordpress and Magento, but to try RT things out with them (and continue with Joomla) it would cost me dear ($337 for 12 months). I don't want 3 or 6 month 1 or 2 licence deals and I don't want to be spending up to $79 a pop for individual templates if ultimately they don't quite meet my needs (something I find that can only be decided after trying them). It's like buying clothes, you can't really buy without trying them on first. They might look great on display in the shop, but it's only when I put my bag of bones (content) into them do I really find if they really suit.
You said: "...at the end of the day we are a business and we cannot afford to subsidise individual learning cycles of a minority of our members.". Well I'm not looking for subsidy and if I'm a minority then that might be due to the way RT caters for people like me - a full time freelance designer! I guess that RT minority will probably now become a little smaller. It's like the shop/store that keeps getting people asking for a particular item and the shop/storekeeper saying "Sorry, we don't stock those because there's not a lot of call for them." - soon enough potential customers stop asking and then the shop/storekeeper's statement eventually becomes true. And then soon enough after, customers don't even bother looking in the shop/store window.
In all this, and I'm still asking and wondering, what would be the harm in being able to use the licenses between the four platforms you have? Suddenly the scope of interest to me could increase across the board four-fold and if I need more licenses then I'd buy them! RT's main reasoning for not doing this may be due over-use/abuse of license rights between platforms? But then that's probably just as easy already on any single platform?
Ultimately, if I want to be developing a few sites with RT across the platforms you support, that leaves me with quite an expensive yearly lock in fee (so I can access new and developing templates/content/updates), which in effect doesn't really justify things even if I do buy outright individual templates at additional cost for and on behalf of clients. Just keeping in with the game with RT is expensive. There's not really many places in between. Maybe if I were a successful full time web-only designer, then the developer options would be great at over $1k per annum but even then, I'd probably be developing my own templates and I also wonder why you don't offer an all in one "RT Master Pack" with everything thrown in at an even better price? - Sorry again, the subs models aren't working for me, something I've now come to realise even more so.
-
-
-
- Andras
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 139
- Thanks: 2
-
I see now that RT membership is somehow like a marriage: you keep it forever or if you divorce it could cost you a fortune.
As with an expired membership you don't have access to any update to the RT templates you are already using in case of quitting the club you have to change template and template customisation on all the websites where you use an RT template.
I'm not developing for clients, but I can imagine that quitting the club is harming the business of a developer who cares about his clients as all the RT templates already in use on client's websites must be removed or purchased again as single template for every single client website. Probably in a similar situation not divorcing from RT and renewing the membership is the smallest loss...
I'm only developing for myself and occasionally for friends, and I'm not a techie, I just want provide high quality content in beautiful websites.
I've developed a Joomla website customising Kirigami and Gantry Mosaic which is always on the first Google search results page for its main search term. I intend to start other websites as a content provider and not as a web developer.
I think nowdays with Joomla and Wordpress, good templates (as RT ones) and a few extensions it's possible to develop professional grade websites without deep developer skills and without hiring a professional (nothing again them, just I cannot afford them).
I've got some very valuable help and info in the RT Forum from staff and other members. However I've also tried to give back to this comunity by testing bug fixes and explaining solutions of some problems I've resolved.
I understand that I belong to a minority that RT is not targeting as I'm not a developer.
I haven't divorced yet from the template club, but we are separated now and probably I should divorce now as in this moment I don't have many websites and would not cost me a fortune to change my templates or purchase them as single templates.
Perhaps I'd purchase a single Wordpress Kirigami template because I need Wordpress for a new project.
By the way, I found a bug in Kirigami's Wordpress version ( demo.rockettheme.com/wordpress-themes/kirigami/ ). If you load all Mosaic elements on the homepage there is a gap before the last element.
-
-
-
- MrArtist
- Jr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 33
- Thanks: 0
-
Nice analogy; Married, Separated or Divorced to/from RT.
Perhaps the full marriage is by being a developer member of all four clubs. Being separated from RT (as a single club member) is like still paying towards the maintenance of all four kids but only being allowed to play with one of them. Divorced from RT (completely unsubscribed) is like never seeing the kids again and unlinking all ties to the family no matter how much was invested in them before, perhaps just buying the kids the odd one-off present at Christmas but basically not keeping in touch until maybe they are older and we can all move on.
Like the previous respondent, I am more of a casual developer/content creator for my own needs more than direct client work. It strikes me though that if RT is not aiming for people like us, but at the same time selling one, two or three license models, then what is this about me/us being a minority and perhaps not your ideal type of customer?
Surely the whole point of RT is exactly the ease of use of well-designed template and add-on systems that people exactly like us can use instead of being full-on developers? Generally, that's why I don't just use the raw Gantry Framework and customise it myself, but then again, maybe that's what I should be doing and then do it for free.
-
Time to create page: 0.066 seconds