Open letter to Ryan et al.
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- JMDonald
- Jr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 43
- Thanks: 27
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I see the "Refund" thread is now locked too. I think the issue isn't those folks' desire for a refund as much as it is they feel they aren't being heard at all. Do you not recognize the frustration of the people on the forum who've watched 12/year joomla templates become 10 or 8 at the same cost. Or the fact that we're now approaching 8 weeks and no one from RT says anything or updates the status of the product people have paid to receive in the stated time frame (even if that timeframe has changed)? Or that since the first of the year the blog has had at least 4 WP articles (which is probably going to be the CMS of the masses...heck it already is...much to my displeasure as I like joomla)!! How about some more G5 posts, how to's, or "did you ever think of using G5 like this?" Or that when someone complains about the diminishing number of JOOMLA templates the reply is that RT has released a bunch of GRAV themes at the same time. The joomla crowd doesn't care about that...they aren't using it, didn't pay for that cms, and probably most never will use it. I'm sure you're all getting tired of people complaining, but mate, RT's business decisions have put a big chunk of your support base really on edge and the masses are restless and the response from RT is...well, not much.
Lots of talk about Grav, and I agree that porting a G5 theme to grav is NOT as daunting a task as creating a joomla template (making an assumption here, I know I couldn't do either), nor should it be seen as keeping the joomla templates from being released.
However, the joomla folk grow restless because:
1) the published release schedule continues to stretch longer and longer,
2) many have called the quality of released product into question (though here, I think the community needs to remember that even back in G4 days, templates were essentially the home page, most interior pages remained pretty consistent from release to release) at least none of those had the weird growing text banner from last month
3) there is NO communication about what's going on. It's been suggested that even a simple statement such as "we're integrating technology "X" and having some issues that will likely add a few days" would go a long way in at least letting people feel they were being kept "in the know." Saying implicitely or explicitely "it'll be done when it's done" doesn't seem like the best business practice; communicating with your customers does
4) as I said in the "refund" thread before it got locked, the grav commmunity seems to be much, much smaller than joomla (unless there's a forum specific to grav that joomla subscribers can't see (and if so, please correct me so I won't continue to think as such)) the numbers are dramatically different. I know it's a newer format than joomla, but it seems odd that a company would spend so much effort on growing a new community at the expense of a well-established one that surely is the bulk of RT's imcome. It just seems like an odd business decision.
Honestly, I can't see the average/new user who wants a personal site or one for their community club, etc. ever getting to grips with grav in the same way they could with joomla. Coders and experienced designers probably find grav pretty easy to digest, but for folk who have enough trouble using firebug or chrome dev tools to figure out CSS, grav just seems like an insurmountable challenge. I'm above average in css, html, php, etc. and I've tried grav on three occasions and each time end up getting frustrated and return to joomla or to Pinegrow Pro for pure html.
So, please, communicate what's going on with the community that is supporting you. Tell it like it is. If releases are going to realistically be 8 weeks, say that. If the company is shifting to a grav focus and wants to devote more of its energy and resources there rather than joomla or WP, say that. But, please, say something. As of now, I'll just let my subscription go until it expires...maybe something cool will come along. My guess is that many in the joomla community feel as I do that when expiration time comes, based on what we currently see, there's little incentive to renew. Same price, less templates, less innovative templates, little to no communication...not much reason to get excited. And remember the "Hmm I wonder" thread that got closed? In years past, every month brought lots of folks anticipating the new release, talking about what it was going to be like, waiting to see what cool thing RT had come up with. That doesn't seem to happen anymore, which is a shame because most of us came to RT excited about what we saw back then.
I strongly encourage RT to take a more open approach to communication with your community. Whether we agree or disagree with the style/design/quality of the templates, we came here for a reason and lately many are questioning whether that reason still exists. Wouldn't it be great if a forum thread like "Hmm" existed again where folk were genuinely excited about a release because they knew it was coming and were expecting great things. It used to be that way and could be again. -
The following users have thanked you: Gws, Hartmut Schwab, Klaus Deisenhofer, dierk, oceano, djSoft, radek
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- oceano
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 635
- Thanks: 43
- My english is not good same yours, so Iàm more direct and less polite but i agree whit you www.rockettheme.com/forum/general-discus...you-are-the-boss-but
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- Ryan M Pierson
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 243
- Thanks: 164
- Technical Writer
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I'll be happy to answer these as honestly and openly as I can.
JMDonald wrote:I think the issue isn't those folks' desire for a refund as much as it is they feel they aren't being heard at all.
I totally get that. We also are happy to discuss refunds with anyone in that thread. But, we also recognize that there is a real problem in doing so in an open forum. In the original thread I've been responding constantly, and sharing your feedback with the team where we discuss it and add it to our game plan.
We have been watching the thread, so much so that we risk ending up spending all day discussing it when we need to actually be focusing on getting this template out the door. So, we respond once or twice to each topic of concern as we can. But repeating ourselves would just delay our work further.
JMDonald wrote:Do you not recognize the frustration of the people on the forum who've watched 12/year joomla templates become 10 or 8 at the same cost. Or the fact that we're now approaching 8 weeks and no one from RT says anything or updates the status of the product people have paid to receive in the stated time frame (even if that timeframe has changed)?
I recognize it, and have been advocating for these concerns strongly. Hours upon hours, discussing these concerns directly with the development team, with Andy, etc.
It's hard to give updates for this. The last update I gave was last week when I said we finalized the design and were working on building the features. This was the update last week, and we're still building this week. Like I said last week, this is a big theme. It has a lot of parts. The demo is more extensive than others we had recently.
When I have a new update I promise you we'll share it. Right now the team is working on delivering on our design and creating functionality. That involves constant testing, optimization, more testing, etc.
JMDonald wrote:Or that since the first of the year the blog has had at least 4 WP articles (which is probably going to be the CMS of the masses...heck it already is...much to my displeasure as I like joomla)!!
This was partially my fault. We had a swarm of guest posts written and all of the guest bloggers were specifically wanting to write about WordPress. I have not personally been blogging as much in recent weeks because I am expecting a child this month and for circumstances I'm not getting in to here, I've been relying on guest bloggers to fill content gaps while I help my wife go through countless doctors appointments.
I am the only writer on staff at RocketTheme, and my first priority is documentation and producing written content for our themes. We released a lot of Grav themes this past month and I've been spending my hours documenting and helping out with customer support rather than blogging. I also help with our other projects including Gantry 5 and Grav.
For what it's worth: my work does NOT delay Joomla template releases... We release whether or not documentation is present.
JMDonald wrote:1) the published release schedule continues to stretch longer and longer,
The hard truth is we are not trying to stick to a hard-fast release schedule. We are trying to produce better templates month-by-month and this particular month is taking longer than usual. We had a delay with the design, so we started development a little later than we normally would.
To correct this problem, we have started working with our design team to get designs started ahead of time. This means a bit more of a delay between a release and seeing suggested design elements based on feedback of that design make its way into a future template. This is a step we are taking right now in recognition of this issue.
JMDonald wrote:2) many have called the quality of released product into question (though here, I think the community needs to remember that even back in G4 days, templates were essentially the home page, most interior pages remained pretty consistent from release to release) at least none of those had the weird growing text banner from last month
We can rush a simple theme out the door or we can put the time in to create something with more features. It's a trade-off every software and development company has to face. For a long time we stuck to a preset release schedule, and the overwhelming feedback was that people wanted more detailed demos/RocketLaunchers. We, like any creator, wants to do better every month.
JMDonald wrote:3) there is NO communication about what's going on.
To say there has been no communication about the situation is disheartening. We've replied constantly to the large thread, but we aren't going to be able to go into detail about each step in development. That takes time away from development itself, and for the most part every time we hint at a feature or a project we're working on it opens the door to a whole new set of complaints when those things change.
Right now we are working on the new template. Like I said last week, we finalized the design and are in development stage. That's really the latest update I can give.
JMDonald wrote:4) as I said in the "refund" thread before it got locked, the grav commmunity seems to be much, much smaller than joomla (unless there's a forum specific to grav that joomla subscribers can't see (and if so, please correct me so I won't continue to think as such)) the numbers are dramatically different.
There was a point when the iPhone was a much smaller part of Apple than its MacBook line. That didn't stop its development from being an essential part of the long-term business model.
Grav received awards last year, including Best Open SourcE CMS, and its user base is expanding very rapidly. While it might not be the biggest piece of RocketTheme today, it is still an important piece of our family. We created Grav, and right now we're the first theme development company offering premium themes for it.
Remember we were also among, if not the first to do so for Joomla.
I hope this answers at least some of your questions. Thank you for your continued patience and feedback. We are listening. - Ryan Matthew Pierson / Technical Writer / Buda, TX USA
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- JMDonald
- Jr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 43
- Thanks: 27
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Ryan, thank you for your response. I know time is a precious thing especially with a new person soon to come into your life!
I'll keep this brief:
1) you need to tell Andy to HIRE MORE WRITERS one only--yikes, do you sleep much??
2) surely there's a way to enhance communication on progress, a "thermometer" style gauge maybe...but then, we'll just bitch and moan when it's progress isn't as fast as we'd like. OR maybe a locked sticky thread like the template announcements so it isn't stuck a 500 page "Hmmm" thread. We know you read the posts, and I think you were right to close "Hmmm", but I'd suggest something to replace it but that only RT comments in for updates etc. that's easy to get to and reference
3) this may not be RT's intention BUT from this side of the screen, Grav seems to be pushing all other platforms into the background. This may eventually be the reality, but for now I'm guessing joomla is still what writes the checks at RT. To use your analogy, much of the iPhone's allure was simplicity and flashy marketing. As an android user, I still think marketing is the main reason it's successful but that's another flame war...I don't want Grav development to stop, it's a great idea...for a specific market...and maybe it isn't RT's intention to phase out joomla or anything like that, but please understand that from our side of it, that thought DOES cross our minds sometimes. Also, the MacBook still continued to develop (as a pc user it hurts to say that) as the iphone did. I believe RT has the smarts and talent to make BOTH grav and joomla shine at the same time! It just seems that in the last year that hasn't really been so much the case for your joomla line. I do hope this sorts itself and that both platforms can exist together.
Cheers and good luck with the new addition!
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- Ryan M Pierson
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 243
- Thanks: 164
- Technical Writer
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JMDonald wrote:
1) you need to tell Andy to HIRE MORE WRITERS one only--yikes, do you sleep much??
I enjoy doing this more than anything else. This is a dream come true for me. I get to learn new skills every day. It gets a bit heavy during releases (writing documentation for new themes) but in-between I have a lot of minor touch-up stuff to get done. Days fly by quickly because I have fun.
JMDonald wrote:2) surely there's a way to enhance communication on progress, a "thermometer" style gauge maybe...but then, we'll just bitch and moan when it's progress isn't as fast as we'd like. OR maybe a locked sticky thread like the template announcements so it isn't stuck a 500 page "Hmmm" thread. We know you read the posts, and I think you were right to close "Hmmm", but I'd suggest something to replace it but that only RT comments in for updates etc. that's easy to get to and reference
The hard part about this is that development is never linear. If you've ever heard the expression "two steps forward, one step back", it applies to development of themes. We create a particle, Kat and the moderator team test it, and then we have a list of things to work through to make it better or fix any issues that comes about.
Really hard to gauge completion until bug reporting is totally done. That also comes towards the end of development, usually.
JMDonald wrote:3) this may not be RT's intention BUT from this side of the screen, Grav seems to be pushing all other platforms into the background.
That's understandable, but it isn't true. Our Grav ports are handled largely by a member of our team that focuses a lot of their time on product updates. There are little bits and pieces that come with doing a Grav port that might need additional help, but for the most part the porting process is automatic and easy to predict. That's why we get so many done in a short period of time.
The main theme development team is not thrown off by Grav. It's a totally different process.
Grav also gets new themes last. If we were really pushing Joomla to the side, this wouldn't be the case. We develop on Joomla first. That's why Joomla gets a release before WordPress or Grav.
Grav is important to us, if only because the trend right now is heading in a direction of one-page websites and flat-file. That's a CMS trend that WordPress and Joomla are simply too big to be optimal choices for. Grav fills a niche just like WordPress did in the early days of blogging. So yes, we see a long-term benefit to the work we put in creating it. Part of its long-term success depends on us having the premium themes to help users get the most out of it. - Ryan Matthew Pierson / Technical Writer / Buda, TX USA
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- wombat
- Rocketeer
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I agree with a lot of what JMDonald has posted, and can also understand your point of reasoning Ryan. There are however a few things that I would like to adress.
1. RT set the schedule for 4 - 6 weeks between releases. I may be wrong, but I think that since November this has not quite been kept.
I and many others have also posted that if you would just let us know what is going on, we may not all be pleased, but we would at least be more understanding. If you let us know that it is going to take longer for the next release and give reasons why BEFORE everyone starts complaining, it would stop a lot of that before it starts. It would be best to tell us this before the 4-6 weeks come to an end, and not after almost 7 weeks, that is just too late. I think that if you want to keep to the "more fluid" 4-6 week schedule, after 5 weeks an update of some kind would be nice, especially if RT knows it will take more than 6 weeks. However, these delays should not become common practice. As many others have said, we started paying for 12 Templates per year and are now getting less. If however we only get 6 to 8 Templates a year, and they are better or offer more..... I could live with that.
2. When the release of GRAV was announced, I had specifically asked if this would affect the release of Joomla Templates. The answer was no it would not, it is a completely different team working on GRAV. Unfortunately the next release of a Joomla Template was delayed. When asked why, one of the reasons given was the release of GRAV and getting Templates ported to it.
I am not against GRAV, I tried it and came to the conclusion that it (for me at least) is only useful for a small site with only a few different pages. Sure, it can also be used for larger sites, but the work involved in getting all the content there where it should be is more than I want to do. I am lazy and prefer it simple and automated . The less work involved the better. I also see no reason why the Templates can't be released for GRAV first. It is an RT Project, and the Templates come from RT, for me it would make sense. RT can choose for which CMS they release the Templates first, and they chose Joomla. Thanks, I paid for a JOOMLA subscription 
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3. Gantry 5 is great, but rather complicated. This is also something that I and others have posted.
Here I need to admit that this is not quite true, it is not so much that it is complicated, as it is confusing. The first time I installed a Gantry 5 template on a fresh joomla site my first thought was "where is the template?". There was nothing there at all except for the articles on the front page. No header, nothing, just a blank page with little content. I also should say that before doing this, I had not done anything with Joomla or RT Templates (or anything else) for 2-2 1/2 years, so a lot was new for me. I have been around for quite a while (my first sites were done with html (hadn't heard of php, Mambo and Joomla also came later) and there were no .css files, it was all hard-coded), but after that first fresh install of Gantry 5 I felt like a complete newbie.
I guess the point that I am trying to make is this - What do these 3 things have in common?
COMMUNICATION
1. RT communicating with User
2. RT communicating with RT (Different RT Support members contradicting other RT Support members)
3. User Communicating with RT
4. We could also go further and say the communication from User to User could be better, but lets start with these.
RT should communicate with us and let us know what is going on and why, best if this happens before we ask. This however needs to come from RT. Users can keep saying this, but RT needs to act upon it.
RT support members should also talk each other to avoid statements that contradict each other. My example (2) was rather extreme, but it is also true. I have done quite a bit of support for different Joomla extensions and know that these 2 points are very difficult to integrate in a support forum, but it is something that needs to be done, at least in my opinion. Where I have helped with support, the users always respected (well, almost always) what I had to say. Not because I can code, but because I always tried to say things like they were. Much to the dislike of some others who did not share my views .
Users communicating with RT - My example might not be all that good, but it is at least something that I had posted here in the forums. It is also true, but we need to let RT know what is going on with us the same that RT should let us know what is going on with them. Ryan has repeatedy asked that we give SPECIFICS. Specific ideas of what we want. What does he get for answers " a Template for a news site", "Templates for sports sites", etc, etc. What I am trying to say, most only post in general what that want.
User to User - This does not happen much here at RT. We all depend on the RT Support Team. Here I would like to take the opportunity to say the following;
Any Template that RT releases can be used for any kind of a site that you want, you just need to use your imagination sometimes. Look at Versla, Citadel, Remnant, Gemini, or Acronym. These can all be used to make any kind of site. Each has some different things incorporated which make them specific for some areas, but these specifics can also be used in other templates. Also please do not forget, that you do not need to only use particles, you can also use other "real" extensions to get the results that you want.
All this in a nutshell;
Am I pleased with like it is now at RT? No, I am not. Lots of answers are more than just vague and I feel like I am purposely being kept in the dark. This causes me to think that RT does not really care about me.
Is it all RT's fault? No, we are all to blame, but RT also needs to start releasing information sooner. Not exactly what the template will be, but some of the things that they want to incorporate, or what problems they are having doing so.
As a paying Customer, do I have expectations? Yes, I do. If RT says 4-6 weeks between releases, then I also expect that within 6 weeks a new template is released. If this is not that case then I need to wonder why I wasted my money. I expect to get quality templates and not just "generic" Templates. I also expect good and timely support - this is something that the RT does well.
Can RT do this all better? I know they can, if they want to. I am hoping for more "WOW!", this has been missing for too long. I was also one of those who anxiously awaited the new templates. I did not get the "WOW!" effect everytime, but at least 4 times a year. Unfortunately these "WOW!" Templates were never anything I could use as they were, but the sure looked good.
Can we, as a user help RT be better? Yes, we can. Everyone has ideas about how their site should be, think them out and explain them in detail, maybe then the RT Team can figure out something for everyone. I, for one, would like to see the use of some of the RT Extensions in the Templates, not only particles. As I stated above, I like it simple and automated. The less I have to do the better. I would also like to see that when I install an RT Template, that at least the header is shown without me first having to look for it (although I am getting better with that).
Dang, I guess I am long-winded. This was supposed to have been short and to the point
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- Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by wombat.
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- Ryan M Pierson
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 243
- Thanks: 164
- Technical Writer
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wombat wrote:
RT set the schedule for 4 - 6 weeks between releases. I may be wrong, but I think that since November this has not quite been kept.
That's where time comes in. When we made that blog post about moving away from a self-imposed deadline, our initial estimate of 4-6 weeks was thrown out there. But the basic premise of the entire post was to explain why self-imposed deadlines are a hinderance to innovation. They force you to sacrifice vision for speed.
That was a year ago, and we made an effort to stay true to the 4-6 week idea. This let us explore new things with templates like adding booking features and customizable animations and music playlists, tour date displays, etc. Things that, in the past, would require an extension to accomplish and are baked in to the template with G5.
Three years ago we recommended half a dozen extensions to get the demo content working. Today, just one. Gantry 5. That means every template needs a little more love on the development front, but they're also a bit easier to get up and running.
I and many others have also posted that if you would just let us know what is going on, we may not all be pleased, but we would at least be more understanding. If you let us know that it is going to take longer for the next release and give reasons why BEFORE everyone starts complaining, it would stop a lot of that before it starts.
While we are trying to move away from arbitrary release dates, I agree. I'll do my best to throw out more info about any delays from our typical development time in the future.
We apologize for this situation.
When the release of GRAV was announced, I had specifically asked if this would affect the release of Joomla Templates. The answer was no it would not, it is a completely different team working on GRAV. Unfortunately the next release of a Joomla Template was delayed. When asked why, one of the reasons given was the release of GRAV and getting Templates ported to it.
If it was me that said that I apologize. While Grav ports aren't taking away from Joomla development, there are cases where Gantry 5 needs an update and we can't get a template out the door until that's done. Adding a feature to G5 that the new template hooks to, for example. Sometimes, and I can't even think of an incident offhand, this kind of issue can delay a release, but only by hours or a single day. Even then, it's usually because of Joomla or WordPress and not so much Grav. Grav was made for Gantry 5, essentially.
Here I need to admit that this is not quite true, it is not so much that it is complicated, as it is confusing. The first time I installed a Gantry 5 template on a fresh joomla site my first thought was "where is the template?".
Gantry 5 was a major change. Change creates confusion. We knew this would happen, and we did try to mitigate that confusion by doing things like creating module positions within our themes so it acted as much like Gantry 4 as possible. But, at the end of the day, this just means adding more steps to create the same affects that can be done by dragging and dropping a particle onto the layout.
Gantry 5 is so much easier we actually had to make it more difficult in our RocketLaunchers for folks to accept it. This added to the confusion a bit, and that's why we no longer add the middle man in our RocketLaunchers by default. I hope that all makes sense.
Users communicating with RT - My example might not be all that good, but it is at least something that I had posted here in the forums. It is also true, but we need to let RT know what is going on with us the same that RT should let us know what is going on with them. Ryan has repeatedy asked that we give SPECIFICS. Specific ideas of what we want. What does he get for answers " a Template for a news site", "Templates for sports sites", etc, etc. What I am trying to say, most only post in general what that want.
Design for the Web itself has become a stangant situation with the rise of flat design. The demand for flat design was so high for so long, and continues to be high. Yet, flat design by its very nature is limited. You can only make flat boxes look so different.
So, we created themes like Acronym which re-introduces the concept of depth and drop shadows. It has the bold color presets that are indiciative of the Material design philosophy. Animated backgrounds (something we haven't done since Cygnet) with customizable shapes (something we've never done before) and animated headers were added to make the theme not only stand out, but have a feature set that stands apart from our recent templates.
But does it stand out enough? That's an objective question with a million different answers. Our next theme has a lot to love about it. We know it'll have its fans and, like with any design, its critics. We want to know what you want to see, and it helps to have an idea that goes beyond "news" or "corporate".
The feedback we received was that folks wanted themes that had even more features and more capabilities... but also that were focused in their design. If you asked 100 members what type of theme they want next, you would hear everything from nightclub websites to corporate news. This is one reason all of our themes come with demo pages for blogs, portfolio, corporate about pages, etc. To show that the themes are flexible with uses beyond the demo home page.
We want to create kicka$$ themes that knock the socks off your clients. We want to take your website to new heights. I will make sure that communication is as open as it can be. -
The following users have thanked you: wombat
- Ryan Matthew Pierson / Technical Writer / Buda, TX USA
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- Hartmut Schwab
- Elite Rocketeer
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...and btw, what is with all the people are missing....a manager to easily import/export particles???
that is a request which exists since gantry5 and we are all waiting from month to month.....ah sorry....now every two month....and no word about that???
a new subscription without such a feature makes no sense in my eyes.
regards
Hartmut -
The following users have thanked you: djSoft
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- wombat
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Hi Ryan,
You should be spending more time with your wife, she probably needs you more than I do ,) but thanks for answering,
Design for the Web itself has become a stangant situation with the rise of flat design. The demand for flat design was so high for so long, and continues to be high. Yet, flat design by its very nature is limited. You can only make flat boxes look so different
10 years ago, RT was the demand. RT did what they wanted and it looked good. You can still do that. Today the problem is that these should also be shown nicely on smart phones, which pretty much need a flat design, but these designs can be changed for the different viewing devices or widths of the viewing device. Just an idea, but why not make a template that uses all these possibilities? For smaller devices it is flat and for Computer Monitors it is like RT used to be. Maybe not as grafic intensive, but still "WOW!".
That's where time comes in. When we made that blog post about moving away from a self-imposed deadline, our initial estimate of 4-6 weeks was thrown out there. But the basic premise of the entire post was to explain why self-imposed deadlines are a hinderance to innovation. They force you to sacrifice vision for speed.
Okay, so what are we looking at then? What do I get for my 12 Month subscription? It is no longer 12 Templates, do I get 9, 8, 6, or maybe only 2 per year? Here RT really needs to do something. I know this question is really unfair, and I am sorry for asking it, but it is a valid question. What do I get for my money?
The rest about GRAV, Gantry 5, or the confusion about the Template release when GRAV was released is not so important. These were just to emphasize my thoughts and feelings, and the thoughts and feelings from other joomla users here at RT. The communication is lacking in more than just one area, not only by RT. We are also to blame that things are like they are.
Ryan, I hope that you and the rest of the RT keep up the work you are doing. Also, I thank you in particular. I hope that the next release is worth the wait. I have not given up on RT yet, and hope that I will not have to. - Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by wombat.
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- radek
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I think it is not a good solution to lock the topics. It is contempt of RT customers. Ryan says Joomla team does not work on Grav. I came up with questions.
How many members does the Joomla team have? When they released 3 template during 6 months. Somebody leave you?
I only want to know what I get for my $80 when I renew subscriptions. Because as I wrote manytimes. I will get for $40 very good and very easy pagebuilder (PB) and I do not need premium template because I will create it from PB. And I do not have to learn G5 that is hard for me because I am not a coder and I do not need to learn too complicated things as G5 is. RT members - please try some Pagebuilder to understand as easy it. The work with Pagebuilder is so easy and quick. Pagebuilder was released: Joomlart, Joomshaper, Joomlashine, Themexpert, etc. I miss PB from RT. G5 is very different.
RT support on forum is predominantly great and very good but RT communication with customers is horrible and that is way why I was thinking about refund. Sorry for my English. - Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by radek.
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