Gantry 5 user unfriendly
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- alexvd
- Rocketeer
- Posts: 59
- Thanks: 3
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Why would the Rocketheme team find Deb's comments insulting?
They should and I am sure they are open for critique.
Gantry 5 is a nigthmare and pointing to the documentation does not help. After all, if you first need to read 'thoroughly' the documentation, the software is apparently not intuitive, right? Also the documentation is not good or complete, it is merely a set of screenshots of all new user interfaces/outlines/layouts/particles with a list of fields - there is no proper description of fields/settings and there is no documentation of how you set up a website with gantry 5, which steps to follow and in which order. Gantry 5 is a nightmare in that sense.
Gantry 5 also means loosing flexibility to change templates, because outlines and particles need to be set up from scratch again. Switching to another template provider is more difficult too, because they don't use particules etc.
When moderators say "Some people's mind are like concrete; all mixed up and permanently set" - that is not very respectful towards clients, right? It is not like I have finished only primary school. I am teaching GIS in university, so ICT is my field. (I know David does not mean it that way, but the same goes for Deb, we are all just discussing and trying to make our points clear)
Rocketheme is taking a turn towards professional template developers as their core clients and will loose many end users who just want to quickly set up one or more websites.
I am looking forward to follow future developments of Gantry - from a distance - because I won't renew my membership until Gantry has a logical workflow and is more intuitive.
Many thanks,
Alex
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- Johan Niklasson
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 140
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Hi Guys
I would love to read more about Gantry 5 but the docs pages have a gateway issue - can someone please fix that?
Thanks!
Johan
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- Riccardo
- Elite Rocketeer
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I confirm that, in this moment, the gantry5.org address is off line. (...and I'm worried!)
About the intuitiveness of the new framework, I too have had a moment of disorientation. However I have developed in the meantime several (multilingual) websites with the new platform and I must admit that it is much more versatile than the last. I think it is a new interface vision with a different logical ordering.
Today I work much better and, when I have to work on the previous version, I notice a lot of deficiencies. For this reason, I would then to reassure you; if a *grandfather* like me (with a logic rather pragmatic and *dos old-style*) was able to figure it out .... you will see that, after some websites, you too will be able to work with gantry5 very well. -
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- Riccardo Rausch
www.frontpageserver.it
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- David Goode
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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Hi Johan
Johan Niklasson wrote:Hi Guys
I would love to read more about Gantry 5 but the docs pages have a gateway issue - can someone please fix that?
Thanks!
Johan
We are investigating what is happening with that server.
Thanks for your patience
Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information
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- MrT
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We're aware of the gantry.org site being down at the moment and we're working on it...
Regards, Mark. - Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information.
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- MrT
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Gantry.org is now back.
Regards, Mark. - Please search forums before posting. Please make sure your post includes the version of the CMS you are using and a link to the problem. Annotations on screenshots can also be helpful to explain problems/goals. Please use the "secure" tab for confidential information.
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- Brian Shea
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 176
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- Web Management, Server Admin, Google Apps Service Provider
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While I agree that G5 is more versatile, and that developers should love it, I also agree with the complaints that it is not intuitive.
While the transition to G4 may have had "just as many complaints", I don't remember that. I remember figuring out G4 pretty quickly on my own, without any need for documentation. And, I know it's not meant to be insulting, but the continual comments about "minds are like parachutes" and "people hate change" and "it's all in the documentation" are not helpful.
Trust me, I am open to change, and I know I continually have to learn new things (as well as forget all ways). But, I also know of the 'normal' person, the non-developer, the non-geek. And even with an open mind, open to change, and reviewing the documentation, plus creating a few sites with G5, I can still say that it is not intuitive.
Simple example: No text editor? Oh, it's coming soon? Do you know how many people do NOT know any markup language? Don't know CSS, or any of this techie crap? It is those people that CMS was designed for. Joomla and Wordpress brought website updates to the common people, where they could just login and edit with all the normal tools we see in forums like this.
If I wanted to cater to programming languages and markup, I would've jumped aboard the Drupal train long ago.
So far, I have not seen any benefit from the new templates. I am still open minded about it, and still trying to figure things out on another site, but it is NOT intuitive. And it is bogged down with so much stuff I don't want (lists, slideshows, and all those things that used to be done with extensions).
Perhaps the latest template (slight pun, since it was also pretty late coming to us) has a 'simple' mode where we all the cool developer stuff is hidden and we can just edit a few particles for copyright/analytics/meta, tweak the layout and colors, and use the tools given in our CMS (wether WP or Joomla) to do all the 'fancy' stuff if needed.
I agree with others that it is hard to hand over a site to a client with G5 installed, especially if they are already familiar with their CMS. What is great for developers is a nightmare for normal users. -
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- Brian Shea
- Sr. Rocketeer
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- Web Management, Server Admin, Google Apps Service Provider
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and to ease the opinion...
Google suffers from this also. They are great, smart techie geeks that do amazing things. But they don't connect with real people.
And when I mention to Googlers that things need to be easier to understand, I get attacked as someone that is clueless and doesn't appreciate the work.
Living in a tech/dev bubble isolates you from the normal people. Some of us are the translators, where we understand the developers and explain it to the normal people. And when us 'translators' cannot understand something, it should be upon the developers to listen. WE are wanting to understand, we are wanting to move your tech forward with users.
If you think we are not worthy of that extra attention, then good luck communicating with the masses that do not know what FTP, HTML, CSS, or DNS is.
Google thinks all small businesses can figure out how to setup their own Google Apps accounts, and run their own AdWords account, and use their sprawling, unorganized help forums to find solutions. They obviously live in very small bubbles and don't notice people's eyes glaze over when the yak on about AMP and meta data.
So... to all developers, yes, you are appreciated. But do not ignore those of us that are your bridge to end-users.
Ahhh, the good old days, when Microsoft used to do huge UI tests. Sure, they gave us the 'Ribbon', which I still don't like, but it seems the masses of normal people did like it. And maybe that other company called Apple might know a thing about UI/UX. -
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- alexvd
- Rocketeer
- Posts: 59
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Thank you Brian! The comparison with Google is very strong - in a very similar way they are experimenting, but lost the connection with normal people and think that everyone should understand their/developer's logic.
It's 2016. The time that we had to figure out what developers want us to do is long gone.
When will you stop defending and start to listen Rockettheme?
Alex - Last Edit: 7 years 10 months ago by alexvd.
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- Henning
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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I'm a volunteer here at RT. I'm kinda watching the game from the sideline.
I would say I'm just like most of the other members here.
I'm running a small design office ... occasionally doing websites for clients.
Gantry 4 was alraedy great. But very limited. I did always add tons (thouthands) of lines of css to get it look right - work right with 3rd-party-stuff. Adding a simple mod-position was overkill. And man in the end it got so bloated. G4 did override almost every aspect of Joomla ... hence conflicts conflicts conflicts.
When G5 came out I was more than sceptical. But I finally just tried it.
Surprise suprise. No more conflicts.
Only a handfull CSS rules I had to add. Adding a position? Just drag and drop.
Large chunks of custom-html? Gone. Replaced by particles ... wich are just custom-html-snippets with a user-interface.
I developed quite a few sites in G4.
One of it making it into the shortlist (top5) fot the Joomla-oscars.
But I don't look back. G5 cut down the time I need to develop sites by at least 50%.
I don't have to defend RT or G5.
You look for analogies?
For me G4 is a Volkswagen. G5 is like a helicopter or Ferrari.
May be harder to handle at first. But boy it get's me so much faster to where I want to go.
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