help finding keywords seo advice
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- gabrieluk
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Hi there,
i've been working doing websites a long time...but this is the first time i will be doing some s.e.o
I've been studing a lot,but there's one thing a really need help with:keywords.I need to find the right keywords to put my services as a webdesigner/webmaster for the public in general trough google search.
I'm building websites using Joomla! and RT templates,plus using CS cart as an e-commerce solution.
I would like to have some advice what would be better in my case to rank higher:like tag keywords like "buy Joomla! website" in a more specific way or "buy ecommerce website",wich is much more generic and harder to get in higher positions....Any opinions?
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- Penn Wooding
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Okay, I certainly don't claim to be an SEO expert but maybe you will benefit from what I have to say.
The two search phrases you gave as an example brought up 92,800,000, and 3,760,000 search results on Google. So I think it's safe to say that they are probably not the best words to use. If you simply put Joomla Web designer then you're going to have a very hard struggle getting in the first 500 pages of Google, let alone anywhere near where people even stop searching.
When I typed in "Joomla design London" the first website that came up was www.joomladesign.co.uk/ . Then I went to keywordspy and and checked out some keywords that this particular site generates . You only get limited results unless you actually register which is bloody expensive believe me. However, it does give you a little insight into what people are typing into search engines to find this site. Surprisingly enough, there weren't that many. But when you think about it, if somebody is looking for a web designer to build them a Joomla website then I suppose there will be only a handful of key words people use, which certainly seemed to be the case when I looked at this website in keywordspy.
"E-commerce London" brought up nearly 8,000,000 results. I narrowed the search results down to 143,000 by using "Joomla the e-commerce design London" "shopping website design London" brought up a whopping 14 million results so you would probably struggle if you use those as your heading. The problem is, lots of people are getting into this type of business now so it's not exactly niche any more.
I would be inclined to keep it simple to begin with and just see what happens. If you are relying on just organic keywords then it may be better just to target customers in your area to begin with rather than going for the whole country all at once. Even "Joomla Design London" generates lots of websites on Google , it certainly isn't going to be a breeze getting your website on the first few pages.
I would advise you to have a look at your competitors, see what they are using for their meta-headings etc. Check out keywordspy and see what keywords are being generated. From my experience, people tend to use very obvious keywords when they are doing a search for web designers.
Also remember that many people may still use good old Yellow Pages to find a web designer. My mate who used to do web design had his adverts in Yellow Pages & because his company began with the letter "A", he was right at the very beginning in web design. He got more enquiries from Yellow Pages than he did from the website, and his website was number one on Google. Obviously this was localised.
You will increase your chances a lot more of getting good ranking if you try and get some good external links. External links can make huge difference to page ranking. Even one good external link will make a noticeable difference to your ranking.
Okay, like I said, I'm no expert, but I have an interest in search engine optimisation and enjoy SEO so I hope some of what I've said may help you in some way. I'm sure that Emma will chime in with some good advice for you, she helped me a lot with my Google ad sense and it has made a big difference already. - http://www.Oscarfishlover.com - the website for great Oscar Fish advice and help
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- gabrieluk
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Coool!
Thanks man,you make me think...
.The first thing i would like to highlight in your post is the "region" fact you presented,because if you will hire someone to do a professional website,of course you would like this person to be as close as possible,so you could meet and discuss requirements,wich would build a good relation of "trust" between client/developer.This was so important to me, that i will change the main domain of my account to .co.uk instead of .com,and possibly inserting a "keyword" inside of this new domain .co.uk,not only my company's name.
And yeah,very nice the "spy" thing...where you got it?I downloaded from www.seomoz.org a toolbar with many SEO features,very nice,free.And i downloaded from www.seobook.com
SEO for Mozilla Firefox,very niceeeeee.It's all new for me,but at the same time so familiar...it looks like i've been doing this for ages
....well,thank you very much for your lines,
cy a!
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- gabrieluk
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Penn Wooding wrote:
"E-commerce London" brought up nearly 8,000,000 results. I narrowed the search results down to 143,000 by using "Joomla the e-commerce design London" "shopping website design London" brought up a whopping 14 million results so you would probably struggle if you use those as your heading. The problem is, lots of people are getting into this type of business now so it's not exactly niche any more.Hi Penn,
I would like just to ad a comment to this lines...When you say that "you will struggle to get first if the results is 14 million"...
I think this is where mistakes can happen...think with me...it doesn't matter if the result was 14 million,what really matters is "how" the websites from this "niche" have been optimized!Don't you think?
Maybe you can have a total result of 10.000 for an specific keyword,but if the sites included in this niche are "super" optimized,it would be harder to get in first than in the 14 million result search!
I just wrote this as you help me a lot,so maybe i can help you a little...
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- Penn Wooding
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Gabrieluk wrote:
Penn Wooding wrote:"E-commerce London" brought up nearly 8,000,000 results. I narrowed the search results down to 143,000 by using "Joomla the e-commerce design London" "shopping website design London" brought up a whopping 14 million results so you would probably struggle if you use those as your heading. The problem is, lots of people are getting into this type of business now so it's not exactly niche any more.Hi Penn,
I would like just to ad a comment to this lines...When you say that "you will struggle to get first if the results is 14 million"...
I think this is where mistakes can happen...think with me...it doesn't matter if the result was 14 million,what really matters is "how" the websites from this "niche" have been optimized!Don't you think?
Maybe you can have a total result of 10.000 for an specific keyword,but if the sites included in this niche are "super" optimized,it would be harder to get in first than in the 14 million result search!
I just wrote this as you help me a lot,so maybe i can help you a little...
Of course, if your optimisation is better than everyone else then your page ranking should be better. Now this is the way I think, how many different phrases will someone use to find a designer to build them a straightforward website in London? I would say there are probably no more than a few major keywords. Joomla, designer, design, e-commerce, web, website, London, UK. If you are looking for someone to build your website, these are the words people are going to use. Obviously Joomla does fall into a niche category I suppose, so Joomla website design will probably be better than just website design.
Somebody who is just starting an online business may know nothing about Joomla so it could be something like "e-commerce solutions London UK" that they use as a search term. I have learnt from experience not to second-guess what people will type into a search engine when looking for a website such as mine. I reckon if you've got three or four major keywords in your page heading, and you make it sound inviting, you are halfway there already.Many people type questions into search engines, I found that these often find my website because their question contains my keyword/s. Personally, I found that I now prefer not to pack my page headings with keywords, but rather make my page headings mean something, but also contain those all important keywords.Does that make sense?
But I really think that to optimise your website furthermore, you are going to have to link build to get that page ranking improved.
Please excuse any typos, I am using speech recognition here I'm getting rather tired so expect a few strange words in between my sentences
- http://www.Oscarfishlover.com - the website for great Oscar Fish advice and help
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- gabrieluk
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yeah,i think pretty much the same...The only thing that is the best to do when you reach thus level,i think is time to use the
• Traffic Estimator
and see the "real" value for this keywords,as i think ppc and organic are direct connected,and as you said "spy" the competition and confirm the "best" keywords that can be used.
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- Emma griffith
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Lets break this down a little, Penn is quite right in many of the assumptions made.
If you look at web design you are looking at one of the most competitive markets around, you say about super optimised, well lets look at that.
First you have a 80/20 rule what this equates to is 80% of the ranking value is from off site optimisation not on site so to compete anywhere for solid primary terms you would be spending a considerable amount of cash and I mean enough to buy a nice 7 series BMW at least. Even then you could find yourself chasing your tail Why?
Trust rank for starters, if lets say the main competitor sites for the first 500 reasonably competitive terms are all within the 5 year old mark, and without even looking I know this is pretty much going to be true.
You can have a site as optimised as you wish but if you are fighting domain age and in coming links you really are up for heading straight for a solid old school 3 foot thick stone wall.
Penn is so right when it comes to how people search for web design services, many tend to be location powered searches and many specific to what they are looking for e-commerce 'east london ecommerce website design' Now even that search which is so targeted at the needs of the searcher returned 163,000 results. Lets look at the first 5 sites showing for that term.
First one PR 5 almost 5 years old with over 13,000 links coming in (remember this is not a primary search phrase this is a long tail search phrase)
Second PR 4 nearly 5 years old with over 9,000 links coming in
Third PR 5, 9 years old with 20,000 links
Fourth PR 5 nearly 5 years old with over 6,000 links
Fifth PR 4 nearly 5 years old with over 5,000 links
Even the next 5 are no easier and all around the same age all with thousands on incoming links.
I am not trying to put a dampener on your idea but you are taking a pony into a thoroughbred race.
Your only hope for organic traffic is to concentrate on very long tail phrases, and target specific areas and use content to your best advantage.
Personally if you are bent on doing this I would put more effort into traditional marketing mediums and word of mouth. Build a website that when people do get there is closes the deal, hunt through the adwords keyword tool and find (if you can any not so competitive phrases)
To be honest you are going into battle with business that knows SEO and have been turning on the SEO switch for quite some time, and took advantage of less stringent Google rules while they were around.
Good luck with all you do, just have very open eyes....
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- Penn Wooding
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When you have finished, I will put your link on my home page. It's only a page rank of three but it will certainly help. It did used to be four but for some strange reason it dropped one point which was rather annoying, 4 looked so much better than 3
I sometimes use this Google page rank Checker website www.prchecker.info/check_page_rank.php
I believe it will give you a good indication of how difficult it is to compete with your competitors. When typing in website design London, this website is number one using organic keywords www.kdweb.co.uk/ . They have a whopping page rank of 6. Considering it only goes up to number 10, that is extremely good and will give you a good indication of how difficult it is to get to the top.
I would also have a look at this website, it will give you a good indication of how many external links a website has created www.dead-links.com/ This will also tell you which links are dead which is very important because some people think dead links can damage your SEO. Or maybe I'm thinking of dead internal links
I was having a think about external links and most people link to website because it's interesting. I think it's probably an extremely good idea to make sure that you have a link on every website that you create, I think this is common practice anyway. At least this will increase your external links. Some website companies have blogs as well, this is often an extremely good way of creating lots of good external links because if you've got something interesting to say, people will link to you.
Depending on which host you are with, they sometimes give you free adsence keywords. I'm with Host Gator I think I get $25 worth. I've not done it myself so I don't know how much it will benefit you. Also, I would imagine that any paid keyword advertising London web design companies wouldn't be on the cheap side, but hey, even if your $25 only lasted a week, it's better than nothing. Anyway, I'm sure Emma will put you straight there. - http://www.Oscarfishlover.com - the website for great Oscar Fish advice and help
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- Emma griffith
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LOL @ Penn - Bleeding adwords my love hate relationship - To be honest $25 in the web design niche will probably last a few hours - One of our businesses (not web design related) has adwords to thank for the largest percentage of business then SEO - We currently on this business spend around $500 per week and the keyword cost is pretty low most terms under $1 -
Adwords really is good but for niches such as web design and SEO for that matter the keyword cost verges on ridiculous.
What you can do now this wont give you complete targeted traffic but it will bring you traffic is to find resources that you can offer on your website that are still within the same market that are valuable to the market, if they are good resources you may then receive some good links to help the overall cause along.
If you are hell bent on attacking a competitive market you may have to get a little creative on traffic generation and link building. With a little thought there are many ways you can value add your site and cross market to bring both traffic, links and some business.
Use every tool at your disposal, find every decent business directory you can lay your hands on and write good business descriptions, just read the fine print first, if it is a free listing make sure you are able to add a link and make sure it is not no-follow.
Really don't bother to pay for directory links unless you know for a fact it is a worthwhile cause, or the amount is so low you just cant pass it up.
Make a face book page, submit to spicy page, my blog log, anywhere you can get a follow link and add a business description do it. Get into article marketing no it's not dead and still is one of the top easy ways to obtain good links. Join forums and get a link into your profile but for god sake be involved don't just create accounts for the fun of it.
This all might sound like a bit of work but your alternative is to pay a company like us a ridiculous amount of money to design a professional SEO campaign and we are still going to tell you the first two years are going to be rough.
It is always easier for established business to get ahead, we have companies paying us in some cases $500 a week some even more, and then they are paying anywhere from $500 - 1k some as much as 4k a week on adwords and in reality this is what you are up against.
So suddenly setting aside say 2 hours every day dedicated to finding ways to expose your business on line may suddenly not seem so bad.
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- gabrieluk
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Emma griffith wrote:
I am not trying to put a dampener on your idea but you are taking a pony into a thoroughbred race.Now we got down to bussiness....that's why i wrote this thread...because i know that my competitors from the start are too strong!!!That's why in the beginning of this thread,i proposed keywords related to Joomla!.
If you go to my website, www.onlinecreate.com , you will notice that all my work is based on explaining people the way i work with Joomla!About extensions etc...So maybe i could avoid "web site design",and try to get customers trough the Joomla! network,as there's many people out there that start building a Joomla! site,but sudenly they realize they need help from a webmaster!What you guys think?
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