Must Joomla Extensions all be GNU/GPL? Have your say.
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- Adrian Cooper
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I haven't read through all these posts but here is my view.
Extensions are considered to be Joomla derivative code, and therefore subject to the GPL license.
The solution IMO, again I haven't read through all these posts so apologies if this has been suggested before, is for commercial extension makers to make their products GPL, but then charge a membership, a part of which provided free access to the extensions. There are different levels of membership according to the number of extensions you want, e.g. in the case of iJoomla.
That, to me, solves the issue completely and to everyone's satisfaction. - www.ourultimatereality.com
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- Andrew Eddie
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Here's an extremely interesting parallel.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6256732.stm - Andrew Eddie
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The Art of Joomla - A Joomla Magazine - www.theartofjoomla.com
JXtended - Empowering the Web - jxtended.com
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- Mack
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"The Artist formerly known as Prince should know that with behavior like this he will soon be the Artist Formerly Available in Record Stores," said Mr Quirk
I guess the record store owners didn't like it. Probably as much as Microsoft likes Open Office.
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- GollumX
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Adrian Cooper wrote:
I haven't read through all these posts but here is my view.
Extensions are considered to be Joomla derivative code, and therefore subject to the GPL license.
The solution IMO, again I haven't read through all these posts so apologies if this has been suggested before, is for commercial extension makers to make their products GPL, but then charge a membership, a part of which provided free access to the extensions. There are different levels of membership according to the number of extensions you want, e.g. in the case of iJoomla.
That, to me, solves the issue completely and to everyone's satisfaction.
Heard of ninjoomla.com ? - Say no to Internet Explorer 6.
twitter.com/mark_up
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- Daniel Chapman
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GollumX wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:I haven't read through all these posts but here is my view.
Extensions are considered to be Joomla derivative code, and therefore subject to the GPL license.
The solution IMO, again I haven't read through all these posts so apologies if this has been suggested before, is for commercial extension makers to make their products GPL, but then charge a membership, a part of which provided free access to the extensions. There are different levels of membership according to the number of extensions you want, e.g. in the case of iJoomla.
That, to me, solves the issue completely and to everyone's satisfaction.
Heard of ninjoomla.com ?
You will soon.
To answer it more clearly.
This system can work, but only if you have a large number of extensions. If you have only a single extension or a harder still a niche vertical market extension the club idea doesn't work at all. No one is going to join a club for 1 component.
The appeal of clubs and their staying power comes from suppling things that you can't get on a warez site like community, support etc. It's the same with RT people pay for RT templates because you get a lot more than just a template.
The sell support/customizations model is also one that is offered for successful GPl business, except that if your extension is easy to install and use and bug free, then who needs support?
And paid customizations are actually an incentive to downgrade your software then charge people to enhance their site when you could have put that same time into enhancing the entire release.
e.g. I have 3 features available. I could release my software with all three features and make no money.
or I could release it with 1 or 2 features and then charge people to install 'customization' feature 3.
It also means I spend more time on customizations than improving my software because I need to eat.
This can work for larger groups, but for smaller 1-3 man shops the bottom line is that if you can't make money off your code, then you need to spend time doing something else to make money which reduces your code writing time, which reduces the functionality and stability of your code.
Regarding the first line of your post, this is beating a very tired dead horse but - Extensions are considered to be derivative only by certain people, not everyone agrees. It has yet to be proven in a court of law, and until it is, it is just an opinion.
Therefore they don't need to be GPL until is proven that they are in fact derivative.
Just wanted to clear that up.
Andrew Eddie wrote:
The CMS formerly known as Joomla?? -
www.ninjoomla.com
- The Ninjoomla Open Source Extension Club
Over 50 open source extensions and 100 videos to you build the site you want.
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- Amy Stephen
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Adrian Cooper wrote:
The solution IMO, again I haven't read through all these posts so apologies if this has been suggested before, is for commercial extension makers to make their products GPL, but then charge a membership, a part of which provided free access to the extensions.
That is a very respectable #100 post, Adrian.
The cool thing about open source that sometimes gets underestimated is the power of a community. Most of us want support - but, we also want to *offer* our support. Those who understand this can model a business around that basic truth.
Amy
- ~*~ OpenSourceCommunity.org ~*~
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- Daniel Chapman
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If that were only so Amy, then the donation model would be by far the most popular and powerful.
But it isn't. No Open Source project -ever- (to my knowledge) has survived on donations alone, no matter how popular it was.
I agree that some members of a community want to give support, but that would be a very small percentage to say the least. The majority are happy to not pay unless they have to.
In all seriousness Amy have you paid something to the developers for every single download of Joomla or an extension you have ever used?
If so, I applaud you but remind you that you would be the minority.
If not, then you prove my point perfectly. -
www.ninjoomla.com
- The Ninjoomla Open Source Extension Club
Over 50 open source extensions and 100 videos to you build the site you want.
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- Adrian Cooper
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Amy Stephen wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:The solution IMO, again I haven't read through all these posts so apologies if this has been suggested before, is for commercial extension makers to make their products GPL, but then charge a membership, a part of which provided free access to the extensions.
That is a very respectable #100 post, Adrian.
The cool thing about open source that sometimes gets underestimated is the power of a community. Most of us want support - but, we also want to *offer* our support. Those who understand this can model a business around that basic truth.
Amy
Thanks! And for all the other responses which I largely agree with.
Many parallels can be drawn no doubt about similar situations such as this where existing business models are challenged.
All that matters at the final analysis is that commercial extension provider have the means to sell their products without infringing the derivative Joomla copright, or the provisions of the GPL license.
There are numerous ways of accomolishing this, the membership option being just one of them. Incidentally, I wasn't propsosing that people join a full blown club like this one, but rather use the membership model as a means of realising the value of the software.
Another possibility is to give the products way under the GPL, but on the condition that the customer purchases a support contract for what would have been the value of the software.
The point is, it seems to me that everyone is reacting at the event itself, without considering the ways around it. It really is a non-event in real terms.
Regarding the issue of whether commercial extensions are ethical or not - of course they are in my view. High quality, extensions with formal support, upgrade paths and comminities strengthen the credibility of Joomla as a whole, and make it much more acceptable to a much wider range of users, particularly corporate, without which Joomla would be simply another "hobbyist" toy for "nerds". Without commercial extensions Joomla would be much weakened.
There are numerous extensions out there that add real value to Joomla, such as iJoomla just mentioning one among many, quite a few of which I use and was happy to pay for just as I am Andy's exceptional templates.
People should stop focussing on this GPL non-event, re-structure their business models in a creative way, and remain focussed on making the core Joomla platform the ultimate CMS both now and in the future, and enjoyed by a very wide range of individuals, academinc and individual users.
Best regards,
Adrian. - www.ourultimatereality.com
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That is a very good assessment of the problem, wich is really a non problem.
Some have chosen to make this into a much larger issue than it needs to be. And that makes you wonder to motiive.
My guess is some will follow this wisdom and adjust the business model. Others will continue to rage against the machine and leave or ride the fense.
In my opinion, for every one that leaves there will be others step in and replace them with working business models.
Regardless, The GPL position is a good one, and should be supported.
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- Adrian Cooper
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timothy jones wrote:
That is a very good assessment of the problem, wich is really a non problem.
Some have chosen to make this into a much larger issue than it needs to be. And that makes you wonder to motiive.
My guess is some will follow this wisdom and adjust the business model. Others will continue to rage against the machine and leave or ride the fense.
In my opinion, for every one that leaves there will be others step in and replace them with working business models.
Regardless, The GPL position is a good one, and should be supported.
I totally agree. All the emotional energy that is currently being channelled into this non-event, could better be channelled into creativity and furthering the business model as wel as the interests of core Joomla.
I have already seen one of my main extensions, Open SEF, come to a screeching halt, the Open SEF site deleted completely, and the developer resign from the core team, and that is not even a commercial product. It has arisen again as NuSEF so at least that is promising considering Open SEF development stopped about a year ago anyway.
The core development team, i.e. lead coders are few in number as it is, we don't need anymore divisive situations, otherwise there will be another de javu and Joomla will fork to another CMS with another African name like "Jambo!", and there will be another upheaval, a new site and another round of politics. - www.ourultimatereality.com
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