Must Joomla Extensions all be GNU/GPL? Have your say.
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- Daniel Chapman
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Amy, 3rd time now.
Do you donate every time you download Joomla or an extension?
If you still can't answer I will take that as a no.
You constantly preach how much the community wants to support people but if you yourself can't even follow your own ideals how much hope is there for the majority who are not as dedicated?
Tim you can consider the same question when you accuse others of being unable to adapt. As long as people don't support GPL developers they cannot have a successful business model without finding other legal loopholes to limit distribution, such as copyrighting names/imagery etc. Which has already been alluded by some people.
So on the support issue I agree with you, Andrew.
License is only part, but it is the part that prevents your product from being distributed which for -some- is the only viable way to make money. -
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- Andrew Eddie
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Daniel Chapman wrote:
License is only part, but it is the part that prevents your product from being distributed which for -some- is the only viable way to make money.It's still a choice. You have to trade off the cost of enforcement vs a perceived loss of profit from free distribution. If you only want the option to enforce, but never do, the point is moot. If you go GPL but don't do any work to actually attract customers, you are in exactly the same boat.
The point is you can't take any one issue in isolation. It depends on many individual factors. For example, I may be able to make GPL work better than a non-GPL competitor just because of the choices I make.
Now you can certainly argue that "OSM have taken away one of my choices" - that being the option of non-GPL. Well, actually you still have that choice if you want. But the reality it means that a developer can't use a proprietary license as a false sense of security. I think most of the angst is not so much that you can't use a non-GPL license (although people think it is), it's the fact that a dev/business is going to really need to think things through from start to finish. You have to be 100% in business mode, not just "oh, I'll whack up a paypal button and because it's non-GPL nobody will pirate it".
Maybe it does limit the hobby programmer that wants to ship a small amount of product, but then again that creates an opportunity and servicing those guys is an angle I'm looking at right now.
Maybe, just maybe, out of this comes a new paradigm that will set the standard for how things in Joomla!, and possibly wider, actually operate. Some of the ideas I've been looking at could well fit that bill and be independent of the software license. Personally, I'm really excited and I can't wait (just got a few project jobs to finish first - but, oh, 1.5 is looking soooo nice - you guys/gals are gonna love it). - Andrew Eddie
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Tim you can consider the same question when you accuse others of being unable to adapt. As long as people don't support GPL developers they cannot have a successful business model without finding other legal loopholes to limit distribution, such as copyrighting names/imagery etc. Which has already been alluded by some people. Wink
I do not remember accusing you of anything
why so defensive?
Simple stating my opinion based on what I have read, you might want to ask yourself why that is so disturbing to you.
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Andrew Eddie wrote:
I think the main issue here is to try and support those that are having a go at trying to make it all work, or are trying to find creative solutions. I think so much effort is being wasted on the etherial "bridge" that is going to magically work around the GPL. By the time it is invented the market will have changed and those betting on that horse will be equally left out in the cold (my opinion).
I don't know that anyone is going to get it perfect first go. Some models will favour the dev at the expense of the customer, and some the reverse. the right balance of models is going to take a bit of working through. Even for me, I sort of know what I what to do, but the devil in the detail is changing constantly. You wake up one day and think "hang on, that is dumb, it's too complicated for the user", or "ok, if I tweak this, the customer wins and I can leverage more recurrent income".
I can sympathise with those that have had the goal posts shifted. But also taking the philosophical view that the license is only one part of making a business, it does not make or break it - so let's work out how you shore up a business model that is virtually independent of the license.
My thoughts anyway...
nothing to add to that
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- Daniel Chapman
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1258
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timothy jones wrote:
Tim you can consider the same question when you accuse others of being unable to adapt. As long as people don't support GPL developers they cannot have a successful business model without finding other legal loopholes to limit distribution, such as copyrighting names/imagery etc. Which has already been alluded by some people. Wink
I do not remember accusing you of anything
why so defensive?
Simple stating my opinion based on what I have read, you might want to ask yourself why that is so disturbing to you.
I am not defensive for myself. I am a GPL developer, and one who -is- adapting to the new way of doing things. I am in the process of setting up a GPL extension club similar to Andrew's.
Trying to set me up now to seem like I have something to hide, or question myself won't work sorry. :
You did accuse non GPL 3PDS either directly or indirectly several times though. Including in the email you sent me where you referred to them as 'Money grubbing selfish brooders.' and your allusions several times to hidden motives.
I would however like an answer. Do you support GPL developers every time you use their products? Or do you just take their hard work without supporting them?
I am now curious as to what you are hiding by avoiding my question and trying to throw it back as me being defensive. -
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- The Ninjoomla Open Source Extension Club
Over 50 open source extensions and 100 videos to you build the site you want.
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every time, no but I have given free hosting to Facile Forms for over a year now. I have subscribed to some support sites when I felt them of value. I have volunteered time and was moderators on both the Mambo and Joomla boards.
I have written some documentation and do support the coders when I can.
Now if you want to start pulling quotes off other sites then read your Private message.
I think some of your tactics are very telling. My opinion. Yes I read your posts on other sites too
Now before we waste any more of these good peoples time and bandwidth with a difference of opinion I would suggest we take the debate private as I have tried to do twice now.
Better yet, lets agree to disagree and find something productive to do.
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And that reminds me, in the spirit of the debate.
Any GPL developer who would like to work on a solution to the current issue at hand, I am offering free hosting and all the support I can muster to help the cause.
Just give me a shout,
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- Daniel Chapman
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1258
- Thanks: 0
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timothy jones wrote:
every time, no but I have given free hosting to Facile Forms for over a year now. I have subscribed to some support sites when I felt them of value. I have volunteered time and was moderators on both the Mambo and Joomla boards.
I have written some documentation and do support the coders when I can.
Now if you want to start pulling quotes off other sites then read your Private message.
I think some of your tactics are very telling. My opinion. Yes I read your posts on other sites too
Now before we waste any more of these good peoples time and bandwidth with a difference of opinion I would suggest we take the debate private as I have tried to do twice now.
Better yet, lets agree to disagree and find something productive to do.
In which case I tip my hat to your support. (nice save with the hosting offer too)
I think some of your tactics are very telling. My opinion. Yes I read your posts on other sites tooAgain, with the veiled references to tactics and motivations. Which is one of your tactics (and used well)
As I said, I have nothing to hide. Bring out what you like instead of implying I am hiding something because I don't repost my words on every forum. If I am not wrong, you are referring to my joke about forking Joomla and selling it. ;D
Smilie and all if I remember correctly.
I have tried to do twice nowTwice? I got one pm from you to which I replied.
I would be happy to take it private if you stop publically posting flame bait like:
I think some of your tactics are very tellingAnd like it or not, some of the behavior I have seen from some of the Commercial Developers is starting to make people wonder what they are really motivated by. and I am not alone.And that makes you wonder to motiive.why so defensive?
Simple stating my opinion based on what I have read, you might want to ask yourself why that is so disturbing to you.
Followed by 'but I am trying to make it private'
If you really want it private instead of trying to make it look like I am dragging this out while taking swings at me, then PM me. I would would reply there straight away instead of here.
*extends olive branch*
EDIT: Just recieved PM consider me gone. - Last Edit: 17 years 3 months ago by Daniel Chapman.
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www.ninjoomla.com
- The Ninjoomla Open Source Extension Club
Over 50 open source extensions and 100 videos to you build the site you want.
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Appreciate the gesture, but there is nothing in my inbox
And if you read the posts from joomla, I offered the hosting before. nothing new there.
My opinion, and that is all that it is my opinion.
So please dont put much into it if it does not ring true
Is that "some" of the developers have given themselves a black eye.
I believe my opinion, that the current efforts are not helpful, and unproductive on the most part.
I believe people have and will continue to be profitable in the GPL world.
Was everything done exactly right by the joomla team, no not really. Is it the basis for all the wooohaaa no.
so what now
Prediction, joomla will grow and survive, some who have left will return others wont.
you and I both are passionate about opposing views, that is all.
The offer to take it private was not anything but respect for others who might want to post their position. People have heard enough of yours and mine
with that I am off to read some better posts.
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- Daniel Chapman
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1258
- Thanks: 0
- Check your in box now. We were cross posting.
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www.ninjoomla.com
- The Ninjoomla Open Source Extension Club
Over 50 open source extensions and 100 videos to you build the site you want.
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