IE6 End of Life at Rockettheme
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- Henning
- Preeminent Rocketeer
- Posts: 29362
- Thanks: 954
- Volunteer
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- EcH
- Sr. Rocketeer
- Posts: 209
- Thanks: 0
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OPEN LETTER:
Dear RocketTheme,
With your recent announcement to drop template designs for IE6 (effective January, 2010), I feel compelled to ask a few specific question regarding your decision. Before I begin I would like to thank you for this advanced ‘heads-up’ information. Given this timeline, I have enough time to generate a plan of action to best serve my client’s and their website customer’s needs past your announced date.
My questions are and should be considered ‘specific’ to my particular needs. In no way can I defend the continued use of IE6 nor would I even begin to try. It is old, out dated and should have gone the way of the dinosaurs years ago. Yet alas, it did not and I know everyone has labored with the continued use of this antiquated browser both you as a template and extension designer/developer and I (or us) as website designer/developer.
Currently I manage the day-to-day operations of three RocketTheme template based websites for ‘.gov’ and ‘.org’ clients. All three are quite active (each averaging over 500,000 unique hits per year) websites that run the gambit of basic general info content up to posting live event information, images and videos to webcam broadcasts of special civic events. With all three client sites the number one browser coming to them is IE6 with IE7 and FireFox a distant second. In addition, the ‘.gov’ sites have to function within IE6 because all City computers have IE6 pre-installed (at last count this number was well over 5,000 units). Based on the current budget issues facing all governmental agencies, changing over to IE7, IE8 or FireFox is not on the financial horizon. Countless dollars have already been spent to secure IE6 over their existing internet and intranet network and according to the MIS Department, they barely have enough funding to maintain the current network/systems let along going through the expense of a browser up-grade and the new security issues that surely would arise.
With this specific outline of information, I would like to know if there is currently or something in development that would lighten the burden of Joomla based templates that would not be IE6 compatible? For example, is there a server side ‘modern’ browser that could be invoked when an IE6 browser enters a website? Or, is there a plugin that would send incoming IE6 browsers to another compatible template within the same Joomla installation? I know there is a PDA plugin/template redirect application for Joomla 1.x that I have use but can’t seem to locate a Joomla 1.5 native version. Or lastly, what recommendations could be offered by anyone as a real life work-around?
I fully expect that once RocketTheme starts building non IE6 compatible templates, creating my own specific IE6 CSS files for these exciting and new works of art won’t work. Based on specific and unique language calls found only in ‘modern’ browsers, custom CSS files just won’t cut it any longer! Yes, I can continue throwing up banner warnings alerting IE6 customers to up-grade but in my specific case, this is not an option moving forward. All it is going to take is for one IE6 customer (tax payer) not being able to access at least the general info content to send these clients to another website designer/developer because of one complaint (trust me… that’s how local governmental agencies function!).
Please forgive my long winded post but I felt it was necessary to provide a background of what I’m facing as RocketTheme moves away from IE6. Finally, three cheers must go out to Andy and the RT developers/designers for taking this stand and giving us all ample time to hopefully adjust.
In kind regards,
EcH
p.s. Yes, I know the existing RT library of IE6 compatible templates is extensive but each and every month RT releases a 'must have' design and I've come to enjoy having Christmas at the end of each month!!!
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- John Hodgkinson
- Hero Rocketeer
- Posts: 421
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- Retired, but build and run websites for organisations of school leaders and others - e.g. http://www.icponline.org, http://www.aspa.asn.au, http://www.appa.asn.au
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Unfortunately, I am in exactly the same situation as EcH. Most visitors to my 2 largest sites (over 500,000 hits each month) are from government and/or educational institutions. Over 25% of the visitors, and a lot of those are from developing countries in Africa, still use IE6 and have no capacity to upgrade (financial and technical).
While, as a website builder, I agree with the decision to no longer support IE6, I have to consider my clients. Is it possible to make available Essential-type versions of the 2010 templates that do not rely on the newer technology in the newest browsers? That might make it easier for me to continue my RT subscription for a 4th year and beyond.
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- The Wingman
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1208
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EcH & John Hodgkinson,
Simply build your site with antiquated templates and you should have not problems, except when the software grows out - beyond IE6 capabilities. Of course then, you use older out dated and often unsecured software and that again solves your problem.
I am not trying to be my usually smart ass (also, when I am being one it is just to make people laugh, not harm meant). But the fact is - no one is going to stop progress no matter what excuse people give...even if it is "God Forbid" we can't afford to update our browser. We can all cry for the lose of the "Almighty News Papers" - but unless you convince people to give up on the Internet to bring them back. It ain't happening with its current set up.
Nobody wants change. Period. This is not about budget. That I can prove via case studies and actual experience. So, when I hear "Gov" and can't, well having spent more than half my life in the "Gov", let's just say I have seen enough B.S. to know the truth. My job in the military was to set the "Standards" and people were very resistance to change and came up with all kinds of goodies, and then they would circumvent them and get people killed (literally).
So, I had to deal with plenty of investigations and it always came down to one thing - people not wanting to do their jobs - circumvent them, giving excuses. So, I don't buy the whole - they can't afford for the "Gov". Now, for third world countries that receive hand me down computers - I hope the next hand me down is, well, a little newer and glad they have something vs. not having anything at all.
Plain fact is - have you noticed that analog is out? Yet, millions are still in the dark with TV's, this isn't because of can't or blah, blah, blah - this is because of - resistance to change. But I promise you this - now that the plug is pulled and it is sinking in that this is a fact of life. I bet you my left arm - they are getting themselves hooked up no problem and that any excuse they gave in the past is null and void and was just plain B.S.. Yes, there might be some few scattered cases, but they will come around.
The day is coming where there will be no more apps via a computer for the most part...soon all apps will be on the web and the web will not look like anything you have seen, but I assure you - IE6 won't work with it. Also, that day is sooner than later. Get ready for the plug to be pulled. (Well okay, that is my prediction, so, you can laugh at me on that one - I am use to sticking my foot in my mouth, after a while - you get used to the taste
P)
Thanks,
Wingman - "You can learn a lot from a dummy. So, pay attention to yourself." Quote by me.
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- John Hodgkinson
- Hero Rocketeer
- Posts: 421
- Thanks: 0
- Retired, but build and run websites for organisations of school leaders and others - e.g. http://www.icponline.org, http://www.aspa.asn.au, http://www.appa.asn.au
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I am very sorry to have upset you, Wingman. I was not stating my point of view, simply pointing out some facts of life as they affect my clients. I don't know what it is like working in the military in your country, and it is obvious from your comments that you have no idea what it is like working in the government in my country and in many of the countries in which my site visitors live and work.
"have you noticed that analog is out" - that comment is rather insulting to me and to my site visitors.
Anyway, it is obvious that my feedback is unwelcome and upsets some people, so I won't post in this sort of thread in future.
Thanks to those who did not jump down my throat.
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- The Wingman
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1208
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John Hodgkinson wrote:
I am very sorry to have upset you, Wingman. I was not stating my point of view, simply pointing out some facts of life as they affect my clients. I don't know what it is like working in the military in your country, and it is obvious from your comments that you have no idea what it is like working in the government in my country and in many of the countries in which my site visitors live and work.
"have you noticed that analog is out" - that comment is rather insulting to me and to my site visitors.
Anyway, it is obvious that my feedback is unwelcome and upsets some people, so I won't post in this sort of thread in future. Thanks to those who did not jump down my throat.
I wasn't upset at all. I enjoyed your post and see no reason for you not to continue to post.
I apologize if I came across as jumping down your throat wasn't my intention at all.
As for working in any countries Government - I can imagine there are some similarities - good and bad.
Not sure on the insulting part - I was referring to how the U.S.A. has switched to digital T.V.. So, I wouldn't know how to approach that, nor apologize other than - no offense intended.
Trust me, most people ignore what I say or just laugh. I thought the last line in the post "I am use to sticking my foot in my mouth" would of clarified that. So, please, please post and don't let people stop you, intentional or unintentional.
On a personal note...I hate IE6. Does it show?!?!.
Maybe - that is what you are picking up and trust me it is not you.
Oh, and I worked Metrology - that is standardized around the world. The school I went to, for it, in the US - pretty much every country that practices it goes to that school (England, Saudi, Portugal etc.). Since at the time of my schooling, there was only one school in the world that taught it and that was with the U.S.A.F..
Peace Out,
WingNut <---- LOL
Did some editing to clarify things and correct my bad spelling and grammar. I type to fast and got fat fingers. LOL - "You can learn a lot from a dummy. So, pay attention to yourself." Quote by me.
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- Andy Miller
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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- Web Kahuna
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Both sides of any conversation are always welcome as long as things stay civil of course
The whole analog TV being replaced by digital TV is a recent step here in the US, and it's a very good analogy. They announced this years ago, and it has been delayed a couple of times, I guess most people just never thought it was going to happen. Now it has, I see people scrambling to buy the analog-2-digital convertor boxes. If there was a concerted effort to do the same thing with IE, I think the result could be the same. These companies that have held off for so long, would just say it's time to go ahead, and hit that update button. It probably wouldn't be the end of the world
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- Joe Halleck
- Preeminent Rocketeer
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- Never give up!
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Having to keep IE6 on computers at a hospital I work at I feel John's pain.
Many software developers (Siemens is the one that is stopping this upgrade) have yet to validate IE7 yet alone IE8 on many of their applications. Some of these big companies are so far behind the "8" ball.
I also see this from the developers side too and IE6 needs to die.
What really needs to happen is M$ needs kill it. That will be the only way IE6 will die 100% and force these big companies to get updated to use the new browsers. - Magento - phpBB3 - Kunena - RokBridge Specialist
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- The Wingman
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Joe Halleck wrote:
I also see this from the developers side too and IE6 needs to die.
What really needs to happen is M$ needs kill it. That will be the only way IE6 will die 100% and force these big companies to get updated to use the new browsers.
I don't see this as a developers issue. Simply because of my background in Metrology. The day that all countries and businesses accepted a standard of measurement - was the day technology was born, at least to the extent we see today.
Without the acceptance of standards everything from airplanes, to cars, computers, modern medical miracles and more would not exist. We would still be using our feet (toe to heal) to measure and stake property - of course it would change based on shoe size. Someone with small feet would end up with less land. Also, we would be using our "rule of thumb" (bigger thumbs meant bigger stick), we would be using all kinds of body parts that maintain no standard other than most of us have them in various sizes and lengths. And that is just measurement in length and width we are not even talking weights, light, blah, blah, blah. Imagine ordering a part, say a rod that needs to fit perfect in a hole, in America and your from Europe, or vise verse, and telling them - "Just use your thumb to measure it and it should fit just perfect in the whole we made with Tom's thumb over here." Well, guess what - ain't happening. Imagine trying to make an PC or Apple computer with those standards?
I can go into weight, physical dimension and more discussing standards, there is a long list. Now, having worked on the highest traceable equipment in the U.S. and having a full understanding of the importance of standards and how they ultimately help Mankind I can say this with confidence - "IE sucks Monkey (censored)".
Here is two points that I must bring up -
1) Standards does not take away from individualism. There are lots of different cars, but standards have made that possible.
2) The higher the standards - the further the advancement. As standards become more and more precise the further the advancement of Mankind.
The web has a standard, which IE blatantly refuses to accept! This is not about developers - this is about the advancement and benefit of Mankind. If your still unsure about the importance of standards and why and how it affects your life. Then look at your screen and your computer and know that if we followed IE's way of thinking for Metrology - your screen and computer simply would not exist and you would be holding a quill while using parchment and ink to communicate and this conversation would be null and void.
Thanks,
Wingman - "You can learn a lot from a dummy. So, pay attention to yourself." Quote by me.
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